Saim
Balloon Fighter
Posts: 860
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Post by Saim on Jan 1, 2009 23:28:06 GMT -5
I refuse to call him Pokemon Trainer. He's Red for god's sake! Also, Toon Link. NO. Well, at least they didn't call him "Celda". The Red design is a mold for you just like in the Pokémon games. And? Red still appears in GSC as well as the manga - he's definitely a character. So? He should have been called "Wind Waker Link" or "Wind Hero Link" because that's what he was actually called in-game, rather than making official a fan-made perversion. How were they unrelated? My point was that Red would have been far better than "Pokemon Trainer", because the playable character is just a more generic-ized Red. Having an actual character would also be better than "Generic Animal Crossing Dude". |
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Post by TV Eye on Jan 2, 2009 0:55:29 GMT -5
The Red design is a mold for you just like in the Pokémon games. And? Red still appears in GSC as well as the manga - he's definitely a character. Yes, but he's not the character in Brawl! Red never caught an Ivysar in a cave with Lucas, or Charizard in a volcano during a robot attack. The SSE specifically shows these actions taking place. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jan 2, 2009 1:48:52 GMT -5
And? Red still appears in GSC as well as the manga - he's definitely a character. An explanation for this is that Red is a name used for a NPC in Gold / Silver / Crystal / Stadium 2, but this is you as a Trainer with the name you want like in Red / Blue / Yellow / Stadium / FireRed / LeafGreen, who is unnamed in the manual as they call him "you" and not "Red" or "Blue". Red exists in the manga because a manga (also anime for that matter) needs a protagonist with a will of its own. This above doesn't depend on Smash. Now, in Smash, the Pokémon Trainer trophy (and lack of a similar one in Melee vs. Oak or Misty) also shows you the Brawl Pokémon Trainer representing any Trainer and not the one you build with your actions in Kanto or the one you face in Johto. Not only the trophy, but also Snake's conversation about all Pokémon Trainers. Many fans don't like this view and would rather see him named, like most RPG characters. NinDB had a bio for Red, Bulbagarden talks about him like a named character, etc., which is not bad because those bios are summaries of the plot in the Pokémon games. But they are nameless in a way. The fact that they are named after their game versions, doesn't it make you see them as placeholders for your name, whether it's Pokémon or another game series? Like when a Rattata is forever named RATTATA and RATICATE if you choose not to nickname it? We had a discussion about it here; that thread could be a complement for this explanation I'm giving you. So? He should have been called "Wind Waker Link" or "Wind Hero Link" because that's what he was actually called in-game, rather than making official a fan-made perversion. I'm sure the term "toon shading" was used by Nintendo before they released The Wind Waker, in the booklets of Master Quest. It's not as fan-made or perverted as what you mentioned earlier, "Celda" (there's no way that would have been the name). At first I wanted Toon Link to have a more specific title because an art style has nothing to do with the fiction in the games, but when I saw him having the same moves in Brawl that the default Link has, I settled down. I'm going to post an old moveset I made for Hero of Winds Link before Brawl was released. |
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Post by mrmolecule on Jan 2, 2009 19:07:18 GMT -5
Wow, you sound like you're genuinely annoyed at Nintendo for MAYBE doing this in the future  Even that was true, it's so typical Nintendo. There's tons of cool features, yet doing "other stuff" that destroy its potential. Personally, if I was Sakurai, I would make an add-on with Wii Speak capabilities, a preview for the upcoming "Super Smash Bros. DS", and, of course, about 20 new characters, including Miis! |
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Post by Koopaul on Jan 3, 2009 0:19:07 GMT -5
An explanation for this is that Red is a name used for a NPC in Gold / Silver / Crystal / Stadium 2, but this is you as a Trainer with the name you want like in Red / Blue / Yellow / Stadium / FireRed / LeafGreen, who is unnamed in the manual as they call him "you" and not "Red" or "Blue". This is why I thought have an Animal Crossing character that is supposed to be "you" wouldn't be bad. If Pokemon can have one, why not Animal Crossing? |
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Saim
Balloon Fighter
Posts: 860
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Post by Saim on Jan 3, 2009 1:40:47 GMT -5
And? Red still appears in GSC as well as the manga - he's definitely a character. Yes, but he's not the character in Brawl! Red never caught an Ivysar in a cave with Lucas, or Charizard in a volcano during a robot attack. The SSE specifically shows these actions taking place. And Lucas was never in a cave with a dude called "Pokemon Trainer". |
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Saim
Balloon Fighter
Posts: 860
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Post by Saim on Jan 3, 2009 2:11:08 GMT -5
And? Red still appears in GSC as well as the manga - he's definitely a character. Red exists in the manga because a manga (also anime for that matter) needs a protagonist with a will of its own. They could have just used Ash as the other manga and the anime did. The thing is, SSBB used Red's costume. It would have been better as Red, because there's no reason to make him generic. I'm sure the term "toon shading" was used by Nintendo before they released The Wind Waker, in the booklets of Master Quest. It's not as fan-made or perverted as what you mentioned earlier, "Celda" (there's no way that would have been the name). They didn't call him "Toon-shaded Link" though. That's not his name. That... made you... more satisfied? I had one of those too ;D . |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jan 3, 2009 3:38:22 GMT -5
It would have been better as Red, because there's no reason to make him generic. He has been a generic character whenever playable, what don't you understand about that? They didn't call him "Toon-shaded Link" though. That's not his name. Saimdusan, that is a very minor change with less length and the same meaning. It's as if I were criticizing you because you said "Wind Hero Link" and not "Hero of Winds Link". You said it wrong. Pointless correction? Totally, because you understand it nonetheless. Really, this you just said is pointless. Please stop posting so much pointless stuff, it shows you just want to post and post instead of trading ideas with the other members of the forum. That... made you... more satisfied? My point is that Toon Link is not showing moves or weapons specific to The Wind Waker. They again made a tiny and faster Link with the same moves. It isn't worth the stress or the anger over the name of the character. |
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Post by TV Eye on Jan 3, 2009 12:07:14 GMT -5
Yes, but he's not the character in Brawl! Red never caught an Ivysar in a cave with Lucas, or Charizard in a volcano during a robot attack. The SSE specifically shows these actions taking place. And Lucas was never in a cave with a dude called "Pokemon Trainer". What the fuck are you talking about?! If Pokemon Trainer had those three Pokemon before he met Lucas (instead of just Squirtle) then you'd have validity in your statement about him being Red. But he caught those Pokemon in the Smash Brose universe, therefore he could technically be a Smash Bros. specific character. And besides, the name Red is just a random default just like Pokemon Trainer. Obviously Red and Blue and Yellow and Pink and Rainbow are not actual names, just placeholders for what you wanted the characters to be called. |
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Post by Da Robot on Jan 3, 2009 17:41:14 GMT -5
@ Saim
Stop double posting, use the "modify" button to add more content to your posts without having to make a new one.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Jan 4, 2009 1:26:30 GMT -5
I think I've said this before, but eh, why not again? Pokemon Trainer is called Pokemon Trainer as you are not actually playing as 'Red', you are playing as the Pokemon themselves which are linked together under the guise of a trainer. This is much the same as having 'ice Climbers' rather than 'Nana and Popo' - you don't play as 'Nana and Popo', you play them together as the being known as the Ice Climbers. Compare to, say, Mario, who is called Mario as you are playing him as Mario.
If a Pokemon Trainer character was directly playable he would lmost certainly be called 'Red' or whatever his name was. But as you are controlling the Pokemon, the name changes to something that focuses on this fact - which is the reason why you actually face them as separate beings of 'squirtle', 'Ivysaur' and 'Charizard' within SSE, All-Star, in trophies, etc, etc.
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Post by kirbychu on Jan 4, 2009 6:20:03 GMT -5
And Lucas was never in a cave with a dude called "Pokemon Trainer". What the fuck are you talking about?! If Pokemon Trainer had those three Pokemon before he met Lucas (instead of just Squirtle) then you'd have validity in your statement about him being Red. But he caught those Pokemon in the Smash Brose universe, therefore he could technically be a Smash Bros. specific character. ...Then you can say the same about Link. We see him get the Master Sword in SSE's forest, that never happened in Zelda. Teev, you're flailing in an argument with Saim. I'm disappointed.  |
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Post by TV Eye on Jan 4, 2009 13:58:34 GMT -5
Well, it was implied that Link already had the Master Sword and just set it to rest. I mean, he had Navi, so he must've been OoT Link but he was an adult...
GAH! I don't want to think so much.
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Post by Savage Adam on Jan 4, 2009 14:40:33 GMT -5
And now we get back into the "is Smash canon?" crap. To paraphrase one of my own quotes...  |
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Saim
Balloon Fighter
Posts: 860
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Post by Saim on Jan 4, 2009 16:05:00 GMT -5
It would have been better as Red, because there's no reason to make him generic. He has been a generic character whenever playable, what don't you understand about that? A named generic character is less generic than a nameless generic character. But "Toon Link" has a totally different meaning. It doesn't come from the character's name at all, rather what they look like. If it was pointless why did you respond? They made him look like tWW Link, and I'm sure that in the trophy section it'll say "games: Phantom Hourglass, the Wind Waker" or whatever. And Lucas was never in a cave with a dude called "Pokemon Trainer". What the fuck are you talking about?! If Pokemon Trainer had those three Pokemon before he met Lucas (instead of just Squirtle) then you'd have validity in your statement about him being Red. But he caught those Pokemon in the Smash Brose universe, therefore he could technically be a Smash Bros. specific character. And besides, the name Red is just a random default just like Pokemon Trainer. Obviously Red and Blue and Yellow and Pink and Rainbow are not actual names, just placeholders for what you wanted the characters to be called. *facedesk* What? I was saying that it would have been better if his name was "Red". Not "he is Red in the SSE". Well, it was implied that Link already had the Master Sword and just set it to rest. I mean, he had Navi, so he must've been OoT Link but he was an adult... GAH! I don't want to think so much. He also had the TP Link look. He's meant to be an amalgamation of different Links, which to me is a bit disappointing but it's fine. @ Saim Stop double posting, use the "modify" button to add more content to your posts without having to make a new one. Sorry, I try to, but sometimes I forget that I've already posted in the thread. |
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. The names of the characters weren't the point of koopaul in that post.
