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Post by Smashchu on Aug 19, 2008 20:12:12 GMT -5
I know we've had long winded discussions on this, but there was something interested that struck me the other day.
What I'm wondering is what is the future for third parties in Smash. I got to think as some friends and I were playing Soulcaliber. In Soul Caliber 2, they added three special guest to each of the three verions: Link in the Gamecube, Heihachi in the PS2 one, and Spawn on the Xbox. The game recived high praise, sold well, and the characters (namely Link) were liked. However, when Soul Caliber 3 came out, not one of these three guys returned, despite Heihachi being owned by Namco. The guest were a one time deal. Fast forward to now and we have three guest characters from the Star wars universe: Darth Vader, Yoda, and The Apprentice. Of course, the truth is I know that this will be a one time only thing. It's obvious they are out of place, but they are also properties of one of the biggest franchises of all time. They may not be so easy to snag next time. Not to mention these guest, like those in Soulcaliber 2, will have already over stayed their welcome.
So this is what brings me to Smash. Sonic and Snake are two characters who went over very well and everyone was happy for their inclusion (mainly the former) but could they be cut for SSB4? First and foremost, they are guest. Sakurai calls then guest right on the website and makes sure they are in the back of the line. The other thing is despite adding 3rd party characters, the focus is meant to stay on Nintendo. So much that most of the MGS and Sonic tunes are originals and not revamps. Not to mention there was a limit on the number of them (which was never hit). Basically, it is a Nintendo fighting game first and formost. So it makes me wonder, if Soulcaliber did it, will Smash fallow suit. It may not be a matter of the fact people like them, or that people want to see more. Maybe Snake was originally suppose to be a one time thing but he saw how popular Sonic was. Maybe he'll remove these guys and add new ones.
So what are your guys thoughts? Will third parties be in SSB? How many? Are there even enough contenders? How big will they be?
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Post by Dasher Misire on Aug 19, 2008 21:33:28 GMT -5
Namco and Capcom I imagine, maybe Square-Enix. I'd say put in Pac-Man or Nightmare for Namco (we don't need mascots proves Solid Snake) and Mega Man or Ryu for Capcom (I'd prefer Mega Man but Ryu is the inventor of the fighting genre as we know it outside of Smash)
If Square-Enix gets in, I'd say give it to Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You, hands down. Nintendo-made game, made just for the DS, clever character and great sales for the game, plus he has a moveset laid out through pins and a Final Smash at the end of the game with his Ultimate Fusion.
Hell, maybe we won't get 3rd parties, which I wouldn't mind but I like the idea fo sharing some close companies and one of their series with Nintendo. Honorary Nintendo series, one that could be accepted as Nintendo somewhat.
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Post by TV Eye on Aug 19, 2008 21:34:47 GMT -5
Though I love Snake, I feel Sonic would be a better character to keep for SSB4. Also MegaMan would be awesome.
Just the video games legends. I wouldn't care if they took out a majority of the Nintendo characters (like Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Lucas). Even though they are awesome characters, if I really wanted to play as them again, I'd load up Brawl.
I would love Smash 4 to be just all star characters (first and third party), though...this seems highly unlikely to happen.
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Post by Da Robot on Aug 19, 2008 21:47:53 GMT -5
I'll like to see third parties again if it gives us some cool new fighters.
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Aug 20, 2008 2:56:47 GMT -5
I hope both Sonic and Snake return, they are from big-name franchises afterall. Wouldn't like it if original fighters get the boot. Hell the same goes for clones, still a little sad that Roy didn't make it and probably never will again. But yes, they're guests. I have a feeling they'll try to get both Sonic and Snake back for the next installment, but it wouldn't really surprise me if they didn't, if things don't work out. Sonic and Snake are pretty much the most popular newcomers (even though Snake gets plenty of hate here 'n there, he's generally well liked) so it would be kinda dumb if they didn't atleast try to get 'em again for the next round. They already have, more or less, balanced movesets too so that's one piece of work already taken care of. As for new 3rd party character:  He's got the fan support and the creator wouldn't mind to have him in. I really hope things work out between Nintendo and Capcom. |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Aug 20, 2008 4:30:10 GMT -5
The way I see it, there's a drastic difference between Soul Calibur and Smash Bros that doesn't really make it a good precedent - the fact that the former is a game with a couple of guest characters, but the latter, lets face it, is a game of nothing but guest characters. Yes, before Brawl, all of those characters came from within Nintendo, but its still a crossover game, which automatically gives Snake and Sonic much more chance of returning than Spawn, Vader, Link etc ever had.
That being said, things still aren't that clear cut. I would say that Nintendo and whoever is in charge of SSB4 (hopefully Sakurai) would definitely want Sonic and Snake back, but the gaming landscape is an ever changing place, so who really knows? With the current climate, though, both should return.
From there, though, then what? All the fan talk of Megaman has to give him a huge chance, but theres other third party characters, not to mention the chances of Tails and the like (I'd say Tails has a fair chance).
More later. Maybe.
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Post by nocturnal YL on Aug 20, 2008 16:10:28 GMT -5
The trend I see is that they would not be coming back should Smash Bros be made again after yet another 7 years.
Thing is, Sakurai calls them guests and in the game it seems that every effort is made to make these guests separate from the main roster. That and Sakurai said third party inclusion is a difficult task to do.
I have never played any of the Soul Calibur (I'm not to the slightest interested in the Now Loading company) so perhaps I'm not one to comment though...
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Aug 20, 2008 17:36:48 GMT -5
I'm sure many of us liked Snake's conversations about the rest of characters. I envision Mega Man like that, a character that summarizes how special are Nintendo characters and guests, this time copying their abilities and turning them into weapons with names exclusively made for the game.
Event 41 in Brawl was exciting. It's not Nintendo characters, but video game legends vs. you!
These guest appearances could continue in one or more ways: using a wider Sonic the Hedgehog and Metal Gear content, letting more game universes join, or letting some game universes replace some of the 2 that appeared in Brawl. I'd prefer #2 and let Sonic the Hedgehog and Metal Gear be like Ice Climber in the sense that they'd only have the same amount of characters while introducing more items / Assist Trophies, a different stage, more songs, and more collectibles.
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Post by Dasher Misire on Aug 21, 2008 9:51:24 GMT -5
Solid Snake would be Old Snake and Shadow Moses would probably be replaced by the Middle East or Big Shell. Maybe just keep Shadow Moses. Sonic'll look the same (duh) and the stage will either stay as Green Hill or become a new stage from Unleashed. I think ATs should stay the same and no more playables for each 3rd party series, dammit.
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Flint
Bubbles
Im the one and only FLINT
Posts: 482
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Post by Flint on Aug 21, 2008 11:23:15 GMT -5
Sakurai said third party inclusion is a difficult task to do. Dont forget that, Snake could return easily as it was Kojima who wanted him in the game (still if he doesnt return, they could give his moveset to a Advence Wars character and it would work) Sonic its more complicated, if Sega gets bitchy and want more revenues, more control or to make another Mario and Sonic game, Nintendo could think its not worth the trouble and drop it (and I cant think of any character that could use Sonic moveset so all would be lost) |
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Post by nocturnal YL on Aug 21, 2008 14:28:34 GMT -5
Sakurai said third party inclusion is a difficult task to do. Dont forget that, Snake could return easily as it was Kojima who wanted him in the game (still if he doesnt return, they could give his moveset to a Advence Wars character and it would work) Sonic its more complicated, if Sega gets gonzoy and want more revenues, more control or to make another Mario and Sonic game, Nintendo could think its not worth the trouble and drop it (and I cant think of any character that could use Sonic moveset so all would be lost) I quoted that as part of an IGN interview. Sakurai quoted the problem of the feeling these characters give, even after blending in, is different. I guess that does not have hidden meanings like if it's the licensing that actually counts. And I don't even know why SEGA made Mario & Sonic. They could have made a more realistic game and chunk Sonic in since that's what they've been doing anyway. Solid Snake would be Old Snake and Shadow Moses would probably be replaced by the Middle East or Big Shell. Maybe just keep Shadow Moses. I'm not into seeing an old guy (by appeareance) brawling.... Although even with his MGS3 appeareance, he looks like hes the oldest human brawler. |
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Post by commanderflint on Aug 22, 2008 8:54:28 GMT -5
I hated that Sonic was in Brawl(I know he deserved it...., but I just like the overall character....SOME of his games are fine through) Snake would just stay his with his MGS3 look, or maybe use his MGSPO look. Maybe by the time SSBB4 comes out, the MGS main theme is completely legal. :0
I would love more 3rd parties, but I'll like to see some more GS/AW first. :l
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Post by Arcadenik on Aug 22, 2008 12:23:53 GMT -5
Sonic and Snake are pretty okay in Brawl... but I'd rather have Mega Man (the original one), Simon Belmont (just hope he wouldn't wear that weird outfit he is going to wear in that Castlevania Wii fighting game), and possibly Pac-Man (he does have limbs so there goes that "he can't fight without limbs!" excuse out of the window). JMO.
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Flint
Bubbles
Im the one and only FLINT
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Post by Flint on Aug 22, 2008 13:08:24 GMT -5
Youngh Link I was actually giving you the reason, there is a lot of Paperwork and red tape to get trough to get a guest character Snake was easy as Its creator wanted him in the game Sonic, I bet not so much Probably part of the Deal to get Sonic in Smash was to lent Sega to use Mario in that sonic game.
And CommanderFlint besides both being called Flint we are quite Diferent, as I despised Snake in Brawl but have no problem with Sonic
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Post by Game Guru on Aug 22, 2008 14:28:17 GMT -5
Well, you must look at this in perspective. Soul Calibur II started a real trend. Let's actually take a look at both Soul Calibur III and IV and compare it to II.
Soul Calibur III was on PS2 only so Link is out, and if you remember, Heihachi is the star of the Tekken Series, which is ALSO made by Namco. It is obvious that with Soul Calibur III, they did not want ANY guest fighters, otherwise they would've used Heihachi since Tekken and Soul Calibur are OWNED BY THE SAME COMPANY!
Soul Calibur IV has Darth Vader, Yoda, and the Apprentice from the Star Wars franchise. But it also includes characters like Necrid, which were designed by a Guest Artist. But since Soul Calibur II, both DOA4 and Brawl had guest fighters, the former having Nicole, based on the Halo franchise, and the latter having Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog.
Hideo Kojima begged for Solid Snake to be in, and unless Kojima really changes his mind about that, Snake will be a permenent addition. Snake will return in his iconic look, which is how he appears in Brawl. Amazingly, Kojima did have MGS4 in mind when he designed Shadow Moses, as it's one big foreshadow to events of MGS4. Shadow Moses itself is iconic for the MGS franchise.
Now, Sonic the Hedgehog was a very late addition, but we can guess a few things. Sonic was added purely because of fan demand, and that the Mario & Sonic games were pretty successful. I'm positive that Nintendo would love to have Sonic back in Brawl and that Sega would love to make another Mario & Sonic game. I'm sure both can come to a great agreement in time for SSB4.
Now as for new third-parties in SSB4, one needs to think about a deal that Nintendo would motivated to attempt for Brawl, and it always leads back to one thing... Geno. Geno is a very popular Mario Character, and if we consider what was left of the Brawl poll, we have him sharing the top spot with Krystal. However, Geno, unlike many Mario characters, is owned by Square Enix. This leads on that Nintendo would have to make a deal with Square Enix for the rights to Geno. But Square will want some form of payment in return, and unfortunally for many of you here, I can see Square wanting Nintendo to advertise Final Fantasy within SSB4, and Nintendo reluctantly choosing Cloud due to his popularity and the possibility of milking the Link/Cloud matchup just as much as the Mario/Sonic one.
I really don't see Capcom doing a deal with Mega Man, or Namco doing a deal with Pac-Man, or anyone caring about Bomberman or Simon Belmont. I guess a mutual Activision/Nintendo deal to get Crash Bandicoot in is possible, especially considering the legal snarl that GoldenEye is in (being co-owned by Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, and Activision is a BAD thing), but really who seriously would be bigger than Cloud Strife since Sonic is out of the running?
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