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Post by Wildcat on Nov 15, 2008 10:30:13 GMT -5
When one speaks of the experimentation done with other Nintendo properties, they don't realize that thematically those games weren't anywhere near as much of a radical departure from what was already there. So you're telling me that Yoshi's Island is not as much of a radical departure as Jungle Beat was? Let us consider this: Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island is technically the ninth Mario platformer. It was preceded by Super Mario Bros., SMB2/USA, SMB2/JP, SMB3, SMWorld, SML, SML2:6GC, and Wario Land: SML3 (which I'm including because of its surname). If we do not include Mario's pre-Super history at all in this discussion, the evidence is quite clear that Yoshi's Island is incredibly unique compared to the other Mario titles. You don't even directly control Mario! The game's visual design was heavily changed. Yoshi's method of combating enemies was very different from Mario's. Many of the enemies in YI were invented for this game alone, and several haven't crossed over to other Mario games. Most of the boss fights were against new creations. And Yoshi's vehicle transformations are not the same as Mario's power-ups. Sounds an awful lot like Nintendo reinvented the wheel for the most part with YI. Yet many people here and outside of the forum consider it one of their favorite games. Why is that? In comparison, the Rare Donkey Kong series (which, hey, also rejected many of the conventions of its arcade origin!) had 4 original titles before Rare was sold to Microsoft. The three SNES DKC games, and Donkey Kong 64. If we want to get particular, there's the three Donkey Kong Land games as well, but I was under the impression they were ports of the SNES games with some rearrangement (correct me if I'm wrong). So if we include the Land games, we have a grand total of 7...two less than the Mario series before Yoshi's Island came along. So, considering that there were 9 Mario platformers (I excluded the GB Donkey Kong, since it's part of the arcade series in my opinion) before the release of Yoshi's Island, which proceeded to change a lot of the Mario mechanics around, and that there were 7 DKC games before Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, I'd say that Mario fans ought to be more pissy than Donkey Kong fans. They had two more games that followed the same rules before a new game shook it up, and a much wider fan base due to Mario's incredible popularity (which I would argue is much greater than the DKC series, and I mean no offense by that), but oddly enough, the majority of people who played YI loved the experience and did not complain about the amount of experimentation that went into it (well, outside of Baby Mario's yapping, but that's a moot point  ). |
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Post by Manspeed on Nov 15, 2008 13:24:27 GMT -5
A) Yoshi's Island could technically not be counted as a conventional Mario title based on the name alone. Yoshi gets top billing here, not Mario, making it a Yoshi game. The SMW2 prefix was added in for US release, remember? B) It didn't completely sever all ties to Mario's past like JB did. It has: -Mario -Yoshi -Goombas -Koopa Troopas -Piranha Plants -several (misnamed) variants of already existing enemy drones -Bowser -Magikoopa. ...While JB on the other hand has: -DK -Bananas ...and that's it. Keep in mind I'm talking about this purely on an aesthetic level. Even though I personally don't really care for JB's style of game play, I'm not denouncing it as a bad game for that. I'm just voicing my disdain and confusion over the fact that virtually nothing in terms of recurring themes from any past DK games were included in JB. It boggles the mind. If they actually did bother to have some sort of ties with any other DK game, I'd probably be less miffed. |
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Post by Game Guru on Nov 15, 2008 15:28:26 GMT -5
As for the translation of Super Mario RPG, it was translated by Square rather than Nintendo. While many of the names in the credits are not obvious, there is one that English Square fans should definitely know, namely Square's Translation Supervisor at the time, Ted Woolsey, who is best known for... taking creative license with the translation and relatively succeeding with it.Either way, GameCube games that could benefit from being remade for Wii... Super Mario Sunshine (Wiimote & Nunchuck) Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (Like Mario Power Tennis, only with Golf instead of Tennis) Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (Wiimote & Nunchuck) Starfox Assault (Wiimote & Nunchuck) F-Zero GX (Wii Wheel) |
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Flint
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Post by Flint on Nov 15, 2008 21:02:34 GMT -5
...While JB on the other hand has: -DK -Bananas -Introduced new kongs (Like all the DKC) -Bees (Ok, not zingers but neither did DKC3) -levels were you shot yourself from one place to the other (now those white monkeys on bushes instead of cannon barrels) -Auto Scrolling levels (Hoffer levels instead of mine carts) -Animal Friends (Hoofer, Orca, Helibird and that squirrel parachute) -Repeated bosses (another stample of DKC series) -A secret world were you fight the last boss once again As you can see JB had many of the things of the DKC series. They are just reskinned with new characters which is why some people hate it, Yoshi's Island on the other side, had many Mario stamples, but they worked quite diferently in the game (piranha plants, goombas, pokeys, shyguys,Koopas, etc ) |
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Post by Koopaul on Nov 15, 2008 21:47:58 GMT -5
Yes but once again your confusing gameplay elements with actual character content. Jungle Beat had a ton of gameplay similarities to DKC, like riding animals etc. But it's the actual characters, items and references we're talking about Flip. To which DK had none besides Bananas.
Get gameplay mechanics out of your head people! That's not what upset us!
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 15, 2008 22:30:03 GMT -5
Do I have to bring up Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland again? It was a Zelda game without Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf. Now, That would be like a Donkey Kong game with no DK, Diddy Kong, or K. Rool and you'd play as Funky. While DK fans would whine, the Zelda fans were mature and embraced Tingle's outing, even though few got to actually try it out.
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BeamClaws
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Post by BeamClaws on Nov 15, 2008 23:01:13 GMT -5
Actually, that's because it was a spin-off. I believe this was a spin-off also, but many people do't, they think that just because it has the word Donkey Kong in the title, it's a DK game without all of those characters, just Dk.
EDIT: Same with Yoshi's Island, a spinoff, that didn't have Mario's name in the title.
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Post by Koopaul on Nov 16, 2008 0:47:32 GMT -5
Tingle's game is indeed a spin-off title. But Jungle Beat isn't supposed to be.
I suppose if it was called "Legend of Zelda: Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland" then you'd have a point TVeye.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Nov 16, 2008 1:16:34 GMT -5
How is Jungle Beat not a spin-off? Its like a spin-off of the already spun-off Doneky Konga series. Its a double spin-off, so to speak.
It don't get why you're whining - taking it from a character standpoint, as has been said before, its not like it killed off the DKC characters from existence.
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Post by Hiker of Games on Nov 16, 2008 1:51:00 GMT -5
Tingle's game is indeed a spin-off title. But Jungle Beat isn't supposed to be. I suppose if it was called " Legend of Zelda: Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland" then you'd have a point TVeye. Well, thanks to the TToTT, we know that Tingle is Link. So really it's no more of a spinoff than Jungle Beat is. |
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Post by Manspeed on Nov 16, 2008 9:27:49 GMT -5
..and Masa goes and ruins the reply I was gonna make. Do I have to bring up Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland again? It was a Zelda game without Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf. Now, That would be like a Donkey Kong game with no DK, Diddy Kong, or K. Rool and you'd play as Funky. While DK fans would whine, the Zelda fans were mature and embraced Tingle's outing, even though few got to actually try it out. If you ignore what Masa just said, Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland is not a straight-up Zelda game because Tingle is the main character. It's his game, not Link's. In this case it doesn't really matter how much Zelda content gets in. It's a whole new beast. DKJB is a straight-up DK game because DK is the main character. It may be a spin-off, but it's a spin-off starring the main character, in which case it would probably make more sense if there actually were some content related to said character somewhere in the game, which there isn't. For a better example, look at all the those Mario spin-offs. Notice how most of them are all different types of games. Now notice how the ones with Mario's name in the title have this tendency to load up on classic Mario references. Luigi's Mansion didn't do that, because it's not Mario's game; it's Luigi's. Understand? |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Nov 16, 2008 10:18:58 GMT -5
How come nobody bitches about Diddy Kong Racing like this? In fact, there are excessive and insane efforts to try and write everything in DKR into the Donkey Kong canon, but it features nothing from the DKC games except Diddy.
But along comes Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, and because it stars player 1 rather than player 2, it's less acceptable?
If someone can provide an intelligent answer as to how Jungle Beat is different to Diddy Kong Racing in this regards, I will back down and stop thinking you're all moaning little idiots.
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Grandy02
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Post by Grandy02 on Nov 16, 2008 10:50:21 GMT -5
How come nobody bitches about Diddy Kong Racing like this? In fact, there are excessive and insane efforts to try and write everything in DKR into the Donkey Kong canon, but it features nothing from the DKC games except Diddy. But along comes Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, and because it stars player 1 rather than player 2, it's less acceptable? If someone can provide an intelligent answer as to how Jungle Beat is different to Diddy Kong Racing in this regards, I will back down and stop thinking you're all moaning little idiots. DKR has a Kremling (Krunch). But seriously, I fully understand your point. Well, I didn't whine about DKR and DKJB. Almost all major stuff from the DKC series and DK64 ist still there, but it doesn't hurt when it isn't in EVERY game. The disappearance of Kiddy, Chunky and Swanky is odd, though. Anyway, did anybody whine about that the cast and setting changes with almost every Wario platformer? Almost no recurring content except for Wario and his powers. But Captain Syrup's comeback shows that they haven't forgotten the older titles. |
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Post by Spud on Nov 16, 2008 11:22:06 GMT -5
Get gameplay mechanics out of your head people! That's not what upset us! I still don't see why you are upset. The gameplay mechanics are what make the games. Shoehorning in a bunch of old characters wouldn't make anyone like it any more. I think the real problem here is that people like the DKVine-goers hate the DK Bongos. The ultimate DK game could have been released but if it was to be played with the DK Bongos they would still be pretty reluctant about it. |
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Post by Grandy02 on Nov 16, 2008 12:17:47 GMT -5
Characters are important nonetheless. If they weren't, there wouldn't be such a hype about Smash, and there's something called character-driven series. But the point is that the grouching here is about a single game. I'm a big DK fan myself. I would understand you if the franchise in a whole would throw away all its legacy (except for DK and bananas). But that isn't the case. Far from it! It's that damn single game, Jungle Beat.
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