|
|
Post by nocturnal YL on Dec 1, 2008 2:40:22 GMT -5
Well, in Japan, anyway. Wii was launched on 2-DEC-2006 and DS 2 years before. The American release was a bit earlier.
So... the issue I'm raising here is, for 2 (or 4) years of performance of Nintendo's "next gen" console, what do you think of it?
Here are my thoughts:
- Wii is such a latecomer. I originally had a DS because I wanted some Wii connectivity. Well, it turns out not much games support this connectivity. I was originally expecting something like Four Swords Adventures.
- Wii didn't come out as good as I expected, really. Mainly because of the lack of enjoyable games. The ones I currently own are good, and others I tried, like Metal Slug Anthology, look fine too. But most others are just... they have the Wii control with it just for its own sake. No depths of those games are observed.
- Wii still sounds like a PSP to me. Home menu, multimedia and all those unnecessary stuff you'd already have in your PC. Lame.
- It's the mid-life of both systems and there're still things not seen on both consoles. F-Zero, anyone?
- Where's the nice 5-second GameCube opening sequence? I always love to hold Z for an alternate music!
- One things these consoles should be improved upon would be that they should stop making me complain anymore!
- On the good side, it's nice to see some sort of revival. Mainly, the good ol' Super Mario Bros action is back. 64 missed a few good elements, and Sunshine doesn't do well not having a single Goomba for you to stomp and has bad cameraing.
- On another good side, both consoles has good music. But then, the whole "good music" thing was there since, like, two decades ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sqrt2 on Dec 1, 2008 7:13:56 GMT -5
- It's the mid-life of both systems and there're still things not seen on both consoles. F-Zero, anyone? Tell me about it! Apart from Mario, Smash Bros and Metroid, none of the other main Nintendo franchises have appeared yet (I'm not counting Twilight Princess, as it was originally a GC game that they decided to port to the Wii). Overall though, I'd say it has been OK so far, and hopefully a new F-Zero/Star Fox game is around the corner (although I doubt it, by the lack of stuff revealed at E3). |
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Dec 1, 2008 10:26:52 GMT -5
And after 2 years, I bought one for my mum  The Wii is Nintendo's most popular console since the NES. They are leading the home console market and the handheld market by a very wide margin, and raking in more profit than ever before. Hiroshi Yamauchi is now the richest man in Japan. I want to look at some of your points, YL, because some things have really been bothering me lately... Not just about you, but about the general Nintendo fanboy backlash against the systems. - Wii is such a latecomer. I originally had a DS because I wanted some Wii connectivity. Well, it turns out not much games support this connectivity. I was originally expecting something like Four Swords Adventures.Game Boy Advance to Gamecube connectivity was a terrible idea that flopped on its arse. I see no benefit to using a DS as a controller. It doesn't mean it's a late-starter. Hell, they've already got it set up so you can download DS demos from the Nintendo Channel, transfer your AC: Wild World character to City Folk... etc. etc... Surely the GBA-GC Cable and the Dreamcast VMU have proven that any more than that is wasted time and money. - Wii didn't come out as good as I expected, really. Mainly because of the lack of enjoyable games. The ones I currently own are good, and others I tried, like Metal Slug Anthology, look fine too. But most others are just... they have the Wii control with it just for its own sake. No depths of those games are observed.I'm very interested to know what games you owned after the Gamecube had been out for 2 years. - Wii still sounds like a PSP to me. Home menu, multimedia and all those unnecessary stuff you'd already have in your PC. Lame.You don't want your Wii to do more than just play games? Well guess what - it doesn't have to! If it bothers you, you can set it up to automatically load the disc, and you can ignore all of the other features entirely. And multimedia? It doesn't play music CDs or DVDs or Blu-Ray or whatever. It has very limited MP3 access (via. the Photo channel using an SD card). In fact, you could say it has no built-in multimedia capabilities AT ALL! Except Internet, which you have to pay for now, and things like news, which you can delete. In fact the whole thing is customisable, so if you want more features you can get them, and if you don't you can get rid of them. So why is this a problem? - It's the mid-life of both systems and there're still things not seen on both consoles. F-Zero, anyone?We're only 2 years in and we already have several new Mario games, a new Zelda, a new Metroid, a new Smash Bros., a new Mario Kart, a new Fire Emblem, a new Animal Crossing... And what's in the immediate future? New Punch-Out!!, new Sin & Punishment, new Trace Memory... And new franchises? Endless Ocean, Captain Rainbow, Disaster... And that's just the first party Wii releases!! I could go on about the third party games, and then go on about the DS as well. Fact is, the library for the Wii is currently stronger than any other Nintendo console before it. - Where's the nice 5-second GameCube opening sequence? I always love to hold Z for an alternate music!That didn't piss you off after the 400th time you booted up the system? You don't prefer the individualised loading screen for each game? You don't like the fact it loads the home straight away without having some huge branding exercise first? - One things these consoles should be improved upon would be that they should stop making me complain anymore!That's your problem, not theirs. You are older, more cynical, and you are going through a totally irrational phase. I do this once every console generation - for the first couple years I suddenly "rediscover" the previous console (maybe because the games are so cheap). I'll do it again when the next Nintendo console comes out and I'll love the Wii even more. But complaining about it? As I'm discovering, you're complaining that it's not more like the sales figure failure known as the Gamecube. ---------------------------- The more I stand back and climb out of my own arse, the more I realise that the Wii is great. I sit down with it frequently, sometimes just to check out the polls on Everybody Votes Channel, or submit a Mii to the Mii Contest Channel. Maybe play a little Super Mario Bros. or Alex Kidd. And it's currently where I do things like watch BBC iPlayer in my room when the TV's in use. I turn it on a lot, even if I'm not playing games on it. That has never happened with a Nintendo system before. There's a bunch of games on it that I've not finished or bought yet. I need to go back and finish Disaster, I never picked up Metroid Prime 3. I need to play Resident Evil 4, Okami and all these other classics I missed out on first time round. But does it matter? I have a bunch of classic games. And hey... I can even catch up on Gamecube releases. And I have a stack of around 10 games on DS I still need to finish. The level of bitchy complainy "boo hoo Nintendo doesn't love us any more" is nothing short of complete crap. Nintendo doesn't advertise to gamers because they don't need to. Nintendo's started producing games that anyone can play (but gamers probably won't). Does that mean they're ignoring gamers? Does that mean the Wii is failing gamers? No, that's stupid. Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Brawl... these are some of the best games I have ever played. New Super Mario Bros., Phantom Hourglass, Elite Beat Agents... the DS is doing well too. And the best part? Nintendo's doing all this for their fans. Forget Wii Sports/Play/Fit/Music, and forget the DS Training games, and you're left with a VERY solid catalogue of games for gamers that are coming out faster than on any previous Nintendo system. The Wii isn't perfect, and I'd like to see them go further with it, and even further with their next system. But your complaints are unfounded or the sign of a super-obsessed Nintendo fanboy with major social problems. And that's coming from me! |
|
Grandy02
Balloon Fighter
I'm so happy today
Posts: 847
|
Post by Grandy02 on Dec 2, 2008 3:58:33 GMT -5
Nintendo doesn't advertise to gamers because they don't need to. That's true for established franchises such as Mario, Smash Bros., Zelda, Pokémon and so on. They sell well anyway. But a bit more advertising for newly introduced franchises for gamers wouldn't hurt. You see what happened with Captain Rainbow and Disaster. That are surely not the sales figures Nintendo wants to see. |
|
|
|
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Dec 2, 2008 4:03:35 GMT -5
Captain Rainbow was never going to sell any more than it did, its the nichest of niche products. Disaster? Yeah maybe.
|
|
|
|
Post by nocturnal YL on Dec 2, 2008 5:34:00 GMT -5
Fruguy64:
Let's see...
Connectivity:
The difference is, Wii-DS connectivity requires no additional hardware and all the problems between GC-GBA - like the short-lived battery life of the original GBA and how easy it is to accidentaly lose connection because of the plug is not locked well.
Anything software-based can't be big wasters.
What GC games did I have? To be honest, just a handful of 7 games, with 4 or so I didn't really purchase. I currently have 5 Wii games. In terms of game length, however, I stayed on the GC for longer than on the Wii.
But then, you may say the GC makes people stay longer because of all its repeatitive tasks (which could be boring, like beating Mario Party 4 or playing 1000 matches in Melee). Wii games do have something like these, but... this time around, I don't even want to bother with the unlockables. If I can't unlock something, I'll just settle with it - for Wii games only.
Even with my Wii now, one of its main purpose to me is to serve as a device for playing GC games.
But still, I'll say you win in this one, because it IS the fact that I wasn't too overly-excited and buy tons of games for GC either.
A new this, a new that...
Let's see. Older consoles have Mario games released. Quarterly. Games seem to be made more frequently at the old GC days. But then, it could just be an illusion to me... 3 out of the 4 Nintendo racers were released in the same period, and once in a while there was some more major release on the GC. Perhaps I was mistaken by such sight.
Before the next console comes out, it's hard to determine if Wii and DS are good systems. This I have to agree.
And perhaps before I comment on them, I should actually buy the games first. I didn't, due to various reasons, like I've tried (and hated) the game, others say it's not good (or too hard; I'm a casual player) and so on.
Wii Menu:
Teach me how to. My Ver 3.4J Wii Menu doesn't seem to allow me to kill the unwanted channels and to start up the disc automatically.
And, again, when I get a console I want to play games. Not music, not photos, not the Internet and stuff.
GC startup:
Hmm, you DO have a point there... Wait. The loading icon for GC games is gone. Just a generic GC logo for now. Guess they SHOULD revive, say, the GC BIOS.
Of course, the fact Wii doesn't have a startup screen sounds good. You power it on, and jump to the menu.
Last point (I don't know what to call it):
I'm older? Than what? The console? Analytical fallacy for you!
Let's take what you say for now... see you next generation.
Nintendo doesn't advertise to gamers because they don't need to:
They don't need to do that if they don't make games! After taking a look back, they do have a good number of games made.... just... too short. If each game could just stand longer! The fact that they can expand their games up to 8.5 GiB and they possess good compression technology don't help at all.
My complaints are unfounded or "the sign of a super-obsessed Nintendo fanboy with major social problems":
For some reasons, I think numbers and statistics aren't all that matters. The overall impression is too. In the last gen, I get to see promised releases of games, and just as soon as one is out, we get to see information released for the next. Now? A list of unconfirmed games that allows Nintendo to act as a big oathbreaker. It worked on me, and I don't quite trust release lists by now. If a game is not already released, it doesn't exist to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sqrt2 on Dec 2, 2008 9:22:14 GMT -5
You see what happened with Captain Rainbow and Disaster. That are surely not the sales figures Nintendo wants to see. Just out of curiosity, how poorly did Captain Rainbow sell in Japan? (Not that it was going to be released in the rest of the world, but still...) And what's in the immediate future? New Punch-Out!!, new Sin & Punishment, new Trace Memory... And a bunch of updated Gamecube games.  |
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Dec 2, 2008 9:31:02 GMT -5
Sorry about that. I seemed to get quite angry that the criticisms you pulled up for the Wii were that it wasn't like the Gamecube, which is exactly why it is a success. I'll try and keep my cool and respond  The difference is, Wii-DS connectivity requires no additional hardware and all the problems between GC-GBA - like the short-lived battery life of the original GBA and how easy it is to accidentaly lose connection because of the plug is not locked well.
Anything software-based can't be big wasters.You still require a Wii, a game and at least two Nintendo DSs that have to connect up wirelessly. Maybe we'll see more once more Wiis have been sold, but it was always unlikely that this was going to happen in the first couple of years of its life. Hell, we didn't even get Four Swords Adventures until very late. but... this time around, I don't even want to bother with the unlockables. If I can't unlock something, I'll just settle with it - for Wii games only.This is also just another sign that you're getting older. I went through a similar thing - suddenly you don't have the time to spend unlocking everything or completing everything. Especially if you spend most of your free time on websites talking about games Games seem to be made more frequently at the old GC days. But then, it could just be an illusion to me...Yes, it's an illusion. We already have a load of Mario games on the Wii - more than we had two years into the Gamecube's life. At around the two year mark, Gamecube development suddenly got very busy. But four racing games in 6 months was overkill. The Gamecube was dying by late 2003. The Wii is still going strong. And perhaps before I comment on them, I should actually buy the games first.You should always do this before passing judgement, otherwise you're just being a douche. Teach me how to. My Ver 3.4J Wii Menu doesn't seem to allow me to kill the unwanted channels and to start up the disc automatically.
And, again, when I get a console I want to play games. Not music, not photos, not the Internet and stuff.Well that's fine, but I do want to use the internet, and I do want to download demos for my DS. I do want to play Mii Contests and Everybody Votes, all of which require online. And what about wifi multiplayer gaming? What harm is there in also offering an internet browser? If you don't want it, you don't have to have it. Simple. Go to Wii Settings > Channels and you can remove the ones you don't want from there. Same way you delete VC games. If you want them back, you can redownload them. I'll double-check but I'm sure you can set it to boot the disc automatically. I'm older? Than what? The console?No, you're older than you were five years ago when the Gamecube was 2 years old. Your life will have changed, you'll not have as much free time as you once did, and you'll have more responsibilities to worry about. Being disenfranchised with games just comes with age. ---------------------------- I don't really worry about the sales figures. I want Nintendo to keep producing good games that I enjoy. And they are, in great numbers. But they're also producing games that other people can enjoy, which is unheard of in the videogame industry. And they're very successful because of it. But when Penguin announced their latest book, I don't ALWAYS expect it to be written for me all the time. When Universal announces another movie, I don't ALWAYS expect it to be a movie I would enjoy. For a publisher to have fans is weird, and seems to be the reserve of the videogame and comic book industries. Nintendo is trying to distance themselves from this model and put out a range of titles for different audiences. It's confusing and weird for Nintendo fanboys, or indeed gamers as a whole, as we're used to snatching up everything and loving it. But Wii Music, Brain Training... are these games for us? Maybe in another 10 or 20 years... but not right now. The Gamecube made a lot of mistakes. One of these was to focus on kid-friendly titles. They've amended this now to "non-gamer friendly titles" and have hit the jackpot. Sadly, this means things like Mario Kart Wii are rubbish. But it also means we have to look to third parties for more gamer games, and there's plenty coming out there as well. |
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Dec 2, 2008 9:34:52 GMT -5
Double post! And a bunch of updated Gamecube games. How is that any different to other companies updating their PS2 titles for the Wii? They're not doing it to make you buy them again - they're doing it so people who didn't play them the first time round have a chance to play them again. I never played Okami, Bully, Resident Evil 4 (shame on me, I know)... and they're all on Wii now, so I'm going to play them or have played them. I did play Jungle Beat and Pikmin, etc. etc... so I'm not going to buy them again. Let me try a different approach... why is this different to releasing a movie on DVD in 2003 and Blu-Ray in 2008? You don't have to buy it again - nobody's making you buy it again. If you feel compelled to, then you have obsessive-compulsive problems. That is all. |
|
|
|
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Dec 2, 2008 10:04:45 GMT -5
Sadly, this means things like Mario Kart Wii are rubbish. Incorrect. But it does make me think that not only do we gamers have similar games at this point as we did at the same point in the Cube's life (we have our Mario, our Zelda, our Mario Kart, our Smash Bros, our Metroid), but all of these, except for the Metroid and maybe the Zelda - are better. For all the complaining that the Wii doesn't have as many hardcore titles as the Cube (which, as has been already pointed out, isn't true), it also doesn't take into account the fact that the 'gamer' games we are getting are better than he ones we were getting on the Cube. Which should count for something. Hell, it should count for everything. I'll take 20 Wii Musics if it gets me one Super Mario Galaxy. And you whiny bitches should too. |
|
Grandy02
Balloon Fighter
I'm so happy today
Posts: 847
|
Post by Grandy02 on Dec 2, 2008 10:46:50 GMT -5
You see what happened with Captain Rainbow and Disaster. That are surely not the sales figures Nintendo wants to see. Just out of curiosity, how poorly did Captain Rainbow sell in Japan? (Not that it was going to be released in the rest of the world, but still...) Captain Rainbow: around 10000 units (Disaster: around 30000 units). I'll still wait for the Cap'n until summer. However, another Captain Rainbow is already available in book form in the UK. |
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Dec 3, 2008 3:57:17 GMT -5
but all of these, except for the Metroid and maybe the Zelda - are better. Twilight Princess is definitely better that Wind Waker. It feels like they finished the game. Sure it's not pumped full of the colourful style, but they still continue that Aonuma-esque ability to turn innocuous NPCs into highly memorable freakshows. Oh, and you left Mario Kart Wii of that list. I'm wondering if there's a good reason why some people like it more than others - like whether the control method has a big part to play in it. |
|
|
|
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Dec 3, 2008 4:54:01 GMT -5
I purposefully went with 'maybe' as I feel that is debatable - Wind Waker does feel unfinished, which is certainly a huge downisde for it, but on the upside, its not just OoT ten years later. It actually brings some new ideas to the table, albeit perhaps not all that fleshed out.
Left Mario Kart off what list? Its on the 'games we've gotten at the same point' list, but not on the part with Metroid and "maybe" Zelda as MK Wii is not worse than MKDD. MKDD's only redeeming quality was baby park. MK Wii has a solid online system, a good selection of new tracks (Koopa Cape is gooooooood), a good character selection, and a somewhat ok (that is, not absolutely shithouse) battle mode. And I say this having only used the Wii Wheel once or twice then shelving it (though certainly, for certain people its probably a big selling point). It does feel a bit phoned in, though, which is unfortunate.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sqrt2 on Dec 3, 2008 6:43:41 GMT -5
a good character selection Seeing as this game has Bowser and Koopa Troopa clones (Dry Bowser and Dry Bones), not to mention baby versions of Peach and Daisy playable, I'd severely dispute this statement (although I am happy that Funky Kong made an appearance). and a somewhat ok (that is, not absolutely shithouse) battle mode. Except playing on teams is boring! Why couldn't it be all versus all like in Mario Kart DS (or any other Mario Kart game come to think about it), with team mode being optional? |
|
|
|
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Dec 3, 2008 7:02:45 GMT -5
Dry Bones is a completely different enemy then Koopa Troopa - if DD can get away with having a made up character in Toadette then Dry Bones is fine. And Dry Bowser is badass. I'll admit I forgot Baby Peach and Hi I'm Baby Daisy got in though. But whatever.
As for battle mode, yes, teams suck, but at least the course design lends itself to being a bit of fun. Pretty much every battle course in DD, except for maybe Pipe Plaza, completely suck anyway any chance there would be of having fun.
|
|
