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Post by Wildcat on Mar 9, 2009 9:24:57 GMT -5
Smash Bros. is EXTREMELY more accessible than practically any other fighter. That was one reason it was created - to do something different from Street Fighter II. And maybe I've got some crazy hunch, but I think a lot of "casual" gamers play Halo just as much as anyone else would. My cousin, who is really into sports, has Halo. Granted, I don't see him that often, but I wouldn't have pegged him to be super into games.
And I won't argue with you completely that Nintendo ISN'T catering to the casual, but I would think that Zelda: Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy and Brawl, games more focused on Nintendo's original fanbase, have sold quite well. I don't have sales sheets in front of me, and I have to imagine that WiiFit and WiiPlay are selling more than those titles, but they'd be up there.
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Post by Koopaul on Mar 9, 2009 10:03:35 GMT -5
You're right. Nintendo isn't only catering to casual gamers. I make that argument all the time. However, the casual market is where their success has come from.
Oh, here's a chart:
Wii Sports (40.5 million)
Wii Play (20.91 million)
Wii Fit (14.01 million)
Mario Kart Wii (13.67 million)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.1 million)
Super Mario Galaxy (7.66 million)
Mario Party 8 (6.28 million)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million)
Link's Crossbow Training (3.44 million)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million)
You're right, those games you mentioned are up there.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Mar 9, 2009 19:41:37 GMT -5
You're right, Koopaul, its our own definitions of words that are throwing us, us as what you defined as 'casual' I'm looknig more as defining as 'non-gamer'. Someone who bought a Wii for Wii Fit and nothing else is a non-gamer. Ditto for Brain Training on DS. After a period of being a non-gamer they generally transition somewhat to 'casual' - Something like Wii Sports or a waggle-fest mingame collection is kind of a mid-point between non-gamer and a casual gamer. Its also likely the "lowest rung", so to speak, that the other end of the scale - that is, a hardcore gamer, will touch, or admit to touching.
The next level, so to speak, are the c'asual' gamers. Casual gamers would have a few more titles than non-gamers. They could either have 'evolved' from a non-gamer, in which case their collection probably has stuff that sort of builds on that - stuff like platformers or light-hearted racing / sport / etc games. Alternatively, a casual gamer can also be that typical 14 - 25 year old male who has an xbox, halo, gta and some sports game like madden. He's more 'hardcore casual' than the other, but both are around the same 'standing' - the games they play are accessible to most (okay, not everyone). Yes, most of the games have hardcore elements to appease the hardcore, but are simple enough for most to play.
Then of course you've got your hardcore gamers. They're nerds. They read things about games on the internet. They buy Zack & Wiki because they haven't got to experience a good point and click adventure since the PC days. Noby Noby Boy is a masterful stroke of game design.
Using these definitions, I think the problem with the Wiis lineup is its missing that middle tier in a lot of cases. Mario Kart Wii is one, and its selling well. Sure, developers can think that a mingame fest has a wider audience, but they really aren't selling all the well for the most part. If they could create the next non-gamer craze, then, definitely, thats the biggest possible audience, but as we saw with Wii Music not even Nintendo can strike that gold all the time - and since so many developers that are focussed on cashing in on the casual market are just regurgitating already successful ideas, its not going to work.
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Post by Da Robot on Mar 9, 2009 20:10:22 GMT -5
Using these definitions, I think the problem with the Wiis lineup is its missing that middle tier in a lot of cases. Mario Kart Wii is one, and its selling well. The (Nintendo) defination of MKW is "bridge" game, a game that allows for experienced and causal players to compete in. |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Mar 10, 2009 3:35:10 GMT -5
Well that term works fine. The Wii is lacking bridge games.
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Post by Game Guru on Mar 14, 2009 20:53:27 GMT -5
I think the problem with third-parties and with this generation in general is that it's lacking a PS2-level successful console. Very much the support for the consoles and handhelds were decided before the generation even began. PS3 was going to get support from most of the Japanese third-parties and quite a bit of support from Western third-parties, as PS2 did. Xbox 360 was going to get support from most Western third-parties, as the original Xbox did. Wii was only going get token support and support from Nintendo as the GameCube did.
However, the PS3 was not the success that the PS2 was and the Wii wasn't a failure like GameCube was. However, Wii is nothing LIKE the PS3, so you see the games planned as PS3 exclusives being announced for the second-place Xbox 360, which is more similar to the PS3 than the Wii is. The Western third-parties seem to dislike Nintendo because of its family-friendly nature, and the Japanese third-party are still bitter over the licensing restrictions of the NES.
However, if the Wii was more like the Xbox 360, it probably wouldn't have been as successful as it is. It's popular BECAUSE of its motion controls. It's popular BECAUSE of Nintendo's family-friendly nature. It's popular BECAUSE of all the things hardcore gamers dislike about the Wii.
I've always compared the console game industry to the audience... Back with the NES, the audience were kids. With the SNES & Genesis, the audience were tweens who wanted to be cool but couldn't give up totally on their childhood. With the PS1 and PS2, they were rebellious teenagers, forgoing childish things for stuff they considered mature. In my view, the Wii audience are actual adults who have started a family, so THEIR console is also the console of their kids and wife. Essentially, the NES kids grew up and now have kids of their own.
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Post by Koopaul on Mar 14, 2009 21:11:13 GMT -5
Well I'm still a kid at heart. But seriously, I hate how all these gamers nowadays have this superior attitude about gaming, so much so they won't touch a Wii anymore.
Too proud fellas? Not enough gore?
The babies...
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Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 20, 2009 14:51:03 GMT -5
According to Edge Online, The House of the Dead: Overkill has sold only 45,000 copies since its release last month. For the record, I didn't buy it because I decided to buy Deadly Creatures instead (which I assume sold even worse). So, what I've always been afraid to consider is that the very vocal group of gamers who complain about the lack of "core" games on the Wii is, in fact, a very small group. That's not consistent with the numbers who run out to purchase Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Even Metroid Prime 3 did better in its first week. Obviously, Overkill is not as high profile as Mario and Metroid, but it's still an established franchise, and for a game that was touted as "the hardcore you've been waiting for," this is extremely disappointing. I hope you guys are in the mood for more cheap party games and pet simulators.
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Post by Da Robot on Mar 20, 2009 16:48:24 GMT -5
According to Edge Online, The House of the Dead: Overkill has sold only 45,000 copies since its release last month. For the record, I didn't buy it because I decided to buy Deadly Creatures instead (which I assume sold even worse). So, what I've always been afraid to consider is that the very vocal group of gamers who complain about the lack of "core" games on the Wii is, in fact, a very small group. That's not consistent with the numbers who run out to purchase Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Even Metroid Prime 3 did better in its first week. Obviously, Overkill is not as high profile as Mario and Metroid, but it's still an established franchise, and for a game that was touted as "the hardcore you've been waiting for," this is extremely disappointing. I hope you guys are in the mood for more cheap party games and pet simulators. I'm personally more worried for Madworld having low sales that HotD:O, seeing as Madworld has "more bang for your buck" appeal to it. HotD:O looks nice but doesn't appeal to everybody, (Guinness World record for most F-word's in a game, which is turning some people off, a few hours of gameplay, no online components) and there is a lot of other hardcore titles coming out as well, (Deadly Creatures, Tenchu and others saving up for Madworld). Here read GoNintendo's comment section where they talk about this. I'm surprised Sega didn't make it cheaper but some people have been saying that titles like this are just slow burners, I mean CoD:WaW didn't sell well a first but it has half a million people registered playing online now, that's pretty good when it only takes into account those that are online on Wii. |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 20, 2009 17:31:15 GMT -5
Well, from early, unconfirmed rumors I've heard, MadWorld isn't doing so well, either.
You touch on a point that I've thought about since No More Heroes came out (and this was an issue even during the GameCube era): when a "mature" (read: overtly violent and vulgar) game comes out on the Wii, and it's touted as such, it comes across as over zealous and being violent just for sake of it. I think people do find that a turn-off, which is unfortunate.
The real problem, however, is that it's been reported that other publishers are specifically watching the sales of HotD: Overkill, MadWorld, and come this summer, The Conduit, and using them as an indication of whether or not there's a viable market for these types of games on the Wii. This isn't a good start.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Mar 21, 2009 4:45:55 GMT -5
To be fair, though, as I've said before, an arcade light gun shooter is a niche genre. You can't just go "oh look this niche game is selling niche amounts, must be because its third party, abandon ship". This applies to both the 3rd party publishers that will do just this when looking at the performance, and the various fan(/boy)s who use it to judge 3rd party sales.
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Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 21, 2009 12:09:29 GMT -5
...and the various fan(/boy)s who use it to judge 3rd party sales. Was that a shot at me?  OK, lightgun games are a bit of a niche genre, but I was under the impression that they were doing relatively well on the Wii. Well enough that Sega gave us Overkill after porting HotD 2 & 3 (and Ghost Squad), Capcom is giving us a sequel to Umbrella Chronicles, and EA is jumping on the bandwagon with Dead Space: Extraction. And again, it's not like House of the Dead is an unestablished franchise; and unlike those other franchises, it was a lightgun game to begin with. If the lightgun genre is indeed experiencing a resurgence on the Wii, then Overkill had a lot going in its favor, and I woud've expected more than 45,000 units sold in its first month. However, if it's simply the case that Wii software routinely starts slowly but sustains sales over time, then I may have jumped to a conclusion. I'm touchy about third-party games that way.  |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 23, 2009 17:28:02 GMT -5
I'm not going to add my opinion here, lest someone accuse me of fanboyism again. I'll just point out that the article, itself, is a rant, and you can make what you will of the situation. What's up with the lukewarm consumer response to MadWorld?EDIT: Here is Edge Online's report of the UK sales charts. They report that MadWorld "flops." They also mention that GTA: Chinatown Wars, in its first week, sold only half as many units as Vice City Stories did on the PSP. |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 26, 2009 17:01:14 GMT -5
GoNintendo reports that Call of Duty: World at War may have sold 1 million units on the Wii (worldwide). It looks like these numbers may have come from VG Chartz, tho, so take it with a grain of salt, a dash of pepper, and a dusting of Cajun seasoning. If true, however, then I hope publishers are paying attention.
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Post by Sqrt2 on Mar 27, 2009 8:20:05 GMT -5
I was actually going to buy HotD:O even with it's short amount of gameplay. But I was put off upon hearing how many occurences of the f-word there are in the game (I'm not bothered by the absence of online mode, to be honest).
When wiil companies learn that just because you are making a 'mature' title, it doesn't mean you have to liberally sprinkle f-bombs everywhere?
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