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Post by The Qu on Jun 8, 2010 15:27:07 GMT -5
I've read up to Silver/Gold, and I quite liked Adventures. For pretty much the reasons TEi listed. I liked that it made an effort to show what the moves would actually be like if they existed, and how dangerous they could be. Vermillion City getting Hyper Beamed was a great example of that.
And as a fan of the frog Pokemon, Poliwhirl getting used so much was awesome.
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 8, 2010 16:26:48 GMT -5
Nobody ever really stops to consider that a Pokeball can break, trapping the Pokemon inside (which happened in Red's first battle against Giovonni), or that Pokemon and humans can share a direct genetic link (Deoxys was created using a sample of Red's DNA), or that some Gym Leaders have a defense/intelligence network set up (Brock, Misty, Erika and Blaine defending cities from Team Rocket (I think?) while coordinating with each other across Kanto). To be fair, all of that stuff has happened in the anime, too. Although Ash's Snorlax was trapped outside of its broken Poké Ball.  I think the games have done a fairly good job of characterizing the Gym Leaders. Not so much in the early games, but in the remakes and the last two generations we've learned quite a lot about the people we're fighting. I just couldn't enjoy the manga because every other character was a complete dick. One of the things I love about the games is that you're not fighting to take down a group of evil bastards who want to destroy everything. You're just taking part in a friendly competition against people who are, for the most part, just like you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2010 17:05:30 GMT -5
One of the things I love about the games is that you're not fighting to take down a group of evil bastards who want to destroy everything. ...  So, you're telling me you only fight with Teams Rocket, Magma, Aqua and Galactic for mutual shits and giggles? |
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 8, 2010 17:27:32 GMT -5
Beating the evil team doesn't get you the end credits. It's a plot point, but it's not your goal, and Team Rocket's the only one that's ever been related to the main objective - and even then only after you've defeated the team itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2010 17:37:50 GMT -5
Character-to-character conflict is fantastic; a blank-slate mute protagonist battling a bunch of people whose taglines involve liking shorts or hiking is bland. At that point, the games are more battling and less of the aforementioned conflict. Like I'd said before, that's just part of the games and it's not a big deal, they aren't character-driven...but you still have to keep Team Aqua from flooding the land, Team Magma from drying the sea, Team Galactic from destroying everything, and...prevent Team Rocket from doing whatever it is they're doing in-game, I'm never really sure. Aside from being dicks.
That said, we're at that wonderful "agree to disagree" schism; I love the goals the manga sets out, you love the goals the game sets out.
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 8, 2010 18:05:24 GMT -5
I wasn't talking about the random between-cities trainers. From what I read of it, the manga had its share of Fishermen and Hikers too.
The Gym Leaders (and other important trainers, like Riley) have quite a bit of characterization in the games. We only meet Brock twice, and just for a Gym battle each time, but the games tell us he's a serious trainer who's well-liked and respected around Pewter City, that he feels like he's the only trainer in the area who's really taking it seriously, he spends his spare time either helping to excavate fossils at Mt. Moon or hanging around at Diglett's Cave, and he rarely laughs at anything, but when he does, he finds it hard to stop laughing.
My memory of his characterization in the manga is that he's an arrogant guy who also works as a security guard at the museum. Though I'm sure they probably added more than that. The thing the manga does do well is continuing to use characters. The games do this a little, like having at least one character from every region in HGSS, but hasn't really done it on a grand scale in a non-remake since Generation 2.
(Also, in re-reading the Pewter Gym part of the manga to remind myself of it, I noticed that Red's Pikachu defeated Brock's Onix using an Electric attack. I guess that mistake wasn't exclusive to the anime after all.)
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Post by TV Eye on Jun 8, 2010 18:12:02 GMT -5
The manga mixes things up, and while the effect isn't THE BEST THING EVAR 8O!!!, it's enjoyable. Gym Leaders are people, and people aren't always good. It's just a fact of life. Yeah, but you'd think that in order to become a Gym Leader, you'd need good qualities so you were fair in handing out badges, raising the hopes of trainers so they might one day become a Pokemon master... As for the evil groups, Team Rocket had a LOT of competent plans in the games. They hijack a radio tower in order to release waves forcing useless Magikarp to evolve. Compare it so Ruby and Sapphire's "Oh derp, humans don't need water!" or "Eff land, we're gonna swim for the rest of our short lives in an endless ocean! Yay!" And then there's Team Galactic. I'm not even going to delve into the stupidity needed to destroy the entire galaxy. Why are there so many Grunts in these groups? Who signs up for a team bent on destroying humanity? |
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Post by The Qu on Jun 8, 2010 18:43:50 GMT -5
IIRC, the Galactic Grunts did not know the extent of Cyrus' plan. So they make some sense.
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jun 8, 2010 19:07:11 GMT -5
Yeah... Not even his Commanders knew his real plans with certainty. Grunts may have believed what Team Galactic was to the public, an organization researching new sources of energy.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 8, 2010 21:15:26 GMT -5
That being said of Team Galactic only. Who in their right minds would join the eco-terrorists? "Oh, derp, the sea's more important, so let's make it bigger." You can only live in houseboats for so long. "Oh, derp, the land's more important, so let's make it bigger." Okay, so what happens when the fishing industry goes down? Food scarcity. Not to mention the loss of water leading to globally-dangerous droughts. You'd have to have a really pathetic psyche to think any of those schemes are smart, and EVERYONE on these teams know what they're doing.
On another note, Team Rocket doesn't HAVE a big, over-lying scheme. They're the Pokemon Mafia. They aren't in it for any reason but profit.
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 8, 2010 23:04:47 GMT -5
I would like for once to have it so that beating the Champion and defeating the villain where the same thing. Imagine saving the world and becoming Champion in one swoop! What an epic ending!
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 8, 2010 23:09:03 GMT -5
What an epic opponent. It'd be like Giovanni ON CRACK.
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jun 9, 2010 0:04:28 GMT -5
It'd be like Giovanni ON CRACK. Huh? And yeah, that kind of things would be interesting. These days it's still amazing to figure the Champion can be the same person as your Rival. |
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Jun 9, 2010 1:00:25 GMT -5
On another note, Team Rocket doesn't HAVE a big, over-lying scheme. They're the Pokemon Mafia. They aren't in it for any reason but profit. And that makes Team Rocket the best group of crooks of the bunch. They don't have some weird, dangerous plan involving legendaries, they're just assholes out to make a quick buck by fucking over the local people. I really hope Black and White has them return once more or perhaps introduce a new gang of assholes, none of that stupid world destroying cult shit. |
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 9, 2010 1:12:39 GMT -5
That being said of Team Galactic only. Who in their right minds would join the eco-terrorists? "Oh, derp, the sea's more important, so let's make it bigger." You can only live in houseboats for so long. "Oh, derp, the land's more important, so let's make it bigger." Okay, so what happens when the fishing industry goes down? Food scarcity. Not to mention the loss of water leading to globally-dangerous droughts. You'd have to have a really pathetic psyche to think any of those schemes are smart, and EVERYONE on these teams know what they're doing. If I remember correctly, they didn't actually know the extent of Kyogre/Groudon's power until after waking them up. There was a whole "Oh god, what have I done?!" moment with the team leader once their legendary was awake. Magma wanted to increase the landmass to give humans more space to live, and Aqua wanted to increase the sea level to give Pokémon more space to live, but I don't think either of them were planning on completely eradicating the land or the sea. I think they were expecting to be able to control it. And yeah, only Cyrus knew about the "destroying humanity" part of Team Galactic's plan. And he's the biggest crackpot the series has had so far. |
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