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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 9, 2010 2:05:17 GMT -5
Well yes, there was the "What have I done?" thing, but that's not because they were realizing the problem with their plan but because they were witnessing their plan come into fruition ALL TOO WELL.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 9, 2010 3:36:09 GMT -5
I'm with DiU... Team Rocket (in the games) was the best villain group of the lot. Their plans were to steal important items and Pokemon, perform research on Pokemon (regardless of whether it's cruel or not), and - as has been said - all in the name of profit. So they're "bad science".
Then you have the scientists who are into observing, preserving, and developing technology to promote the relationship between man and nature, like Oak, Bill, Elm, Mr. Pokemon, etc. etc. ad infinitum. They're "good science".
And yet the good scientists are the ones who imprison the Pokemon in little balls, and give them to inexperienced children to fight them against each other until they pass out through lack of energy.
So swings and roundabouts really!
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Jun 9, 2010 4:07:00 GMT -5
I know I'm always right, so when an opinion is correct its assumed I must have said it, but that wasn't me. Its true though, Team Rocket are indeed the best team. The others are seemingly just batshit insane. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2010 10:48:11 GMT -5
And yeah, only Cyrus knew about the "destroying humanity" part of Team Galactic's plan. And he's the biggest crackpot the series has had so far. I can't fucking stand Cyrus. He's just...a stupid, emo nihilist. It's more frustrating than engaging to deal with him. Battling him to me feels like the protagonist is going "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP." Say what you will about Team Aqua and Team Magma (because I seem to be the only one who still finds Team Rocket's motives and goals unclear), at least fighting their leaders felt more significant. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jun 9, 2010 11:54:34 GMT -5
I can't fucking stand Cyrus. He's just...a stupid, emo nihilist. I like Cyrus... I hadn't seen him that way, but as a cold, misanthropic intellectual. He's also a bit confusing sometimes... One would think his goal is to own powerful Pokémon, but he's using them and planning to discard them immediately. In the anime, his Commanders try to battle to protect his plan, but he stops them reminding them that anger is a human emotion that only makes humans "imperfect". In any case, I'm sure we agree he's the most radical of the criminal leaders in the series. |
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Post by TV Eye on Jun 9, 2010 13:08:28 GMT -5
Say what you will about Team Aqua and Team Magma (because I seem to be the only one who still finds Team Rocket's motives and goals unclear), at least fighting their leaders felt more significant. I take it you haven't fought Giovanni yet in Heartgold/Soulsilver. Granted, you need a Celebi to do it, but I have more than enough to spare... |
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 9, 2010 14:14:10 GMT -5
I can't fucking stand Cyrus. He's just...a stupid, emo nihilist. I thought Cyrus was very similar to the manga version of Lance. He at least had the most backstory out of any of the evil team leaders. Platinum pretty much gave us a blow-by-blow account of Cyrus' life right from his early childhood. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2010 14:30:38 GMT -5
Cyrus doesn't believe in anything. I want to emphasize this more than anything else. All the character development in the world - and there's not much in regards to the world of Pokemon - doesn't forgive nihilism.
Just sayin'.
I'm gonna drop this now, because A// it looks like there's no winning for TEi today, and B// I'm going to get bent out of shape, and I really don't feel like it.
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jun 9, 2010 14:37:03 GMT -5
I'm gonna drop this now, because A// it looks like there's no winning for TEi today, and B// I'm going to get bent out of shape, and I really don't feel like it. Calm down, man  At least in my case, I wasn't trying to say your views were wrong. Don't you guys agree we should mark any talk about Giovanni as spoilers? The event hasn't occurred even in Japan and it's way too awesome. |
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 9, 2010 16:59:14 GMT -5
Cyrus doesn't believe in anything. I want to emphasize this more than anything else. All the character development in the world - and there's not much in regards to the world of Pokemon - doesn't forgive nihilism. Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying, his motives and goals were practically identical to Lance's in the manga. They're both characters who believe that the world has become so corrupted that the only way to save it is to destroy it and start anew with a few chosen people. Their reasoning is different - if I remember correctly manga Lance was doing it because he loves Pokémon and thinks everyone else doesn't love them enough and Cyrus was doing it because his cold, logical mind has led him to blame emotions for all that's wrong in the world. I wasn't trying to rattle your cage, man. Just pointing out what I thought was an interesting parallel. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 9, 2010 19:33:17 GMT -5
Cyrus needs to die. That is all. And this is, surprise, in the good way. Cyrus is a surprisingly amazing villain. He's like Spock gone evil or Tyler Durden with a purpose other than "MAKE IT BOOM! AHAHAHA! BOOM! BOOM! IT GOES BOOM!" Putting him in that light, he makes sense as a villain. And therefore needs to die, being both capable AND insane.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 10, 2010 3:21:09 GMT -5
Bad guys come in many shapes and sizes. They might be greedy, they might be selfish, their intentions might be good and simply not realise that they're creating a monster beyond their control.
Then you have the batshit loco sociopaths.
So what we have is a range of villains across the series. I don't know why people are getting upset about that.
Team Rocket didn't appear to have an overall ambition. Giovanni was their leader and he was simply the leader of a criminal syndicate. He wanted to maximise the profit he received from Pokemon. He wasn't aiming for anything higher than to die a rich man. His grunts and scientists worked to make that happen.
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 10, 2010 4:48:15 GMT -5
Cyrus needs to die. That is all. And this is, surprise, in the good way. Cyrus is a surprisingly amazing villain. He's like Spock gone evil or Tyler Durden with a purpose other than "MAKE IT BOOM! AHAHAHA! BOOM! BOOM! IT GOES BOOM!" Putting him in that light, he makes sense as a villain. And therefore needs to die, being both capable AND insane. I think he did die in the anime, though it wasn't made explicitly clear. The last time he was seen, he stepped into a portal to his newly-created universe against the advice of his admins, and just drifted off into open space without so much as a space suit, just before the new universe collapsed in on itself. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 10, 2010 5:20:20 GMT -5
I think he did die in the anime, though it wasn't made explicitly clear. The last time he was seen, he stepped into a portal to his newly-created universe against the advice of his admins, and just drifted off into open space without so much as a space suit, just before the new universe collapsed in on itself. Being crushed into a singularity by a collapsing universe... Yeah, I'm pretty sure that sucker's dead. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Jun 10, 2010 9:47:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if he's still alive somehow somewhere and they showed him back meeting Giratina or something (since the Platinum version of the story wasn't used). I guess everything is possible since Darkrai was brought back to existence by Palkia.
Though there's really no need for that to happen. Charon exploring the Stark Mountain is a more-likely epilogue.
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At least in my case, I wasn't trying to say your views were wrong.