Post by nocturnal YL on Jun 29, 2018 9:32:17 GMT -5
I bought it.
I tried to do some basic search on what people think about the Japanese version, and it's mostly positive. Praises include graphics being at PS4-level (at the expense of a short enemy draw distance and a low framerate) and the lack of DLC-related bugs for the pre-included DLC, and complaints include it being not actually comparable to the PS4 version (I didn't expect otherwise) and the occasional frame drop despite the compromises made. Assuming there isn't any other major problem that these early players didn't discover, it seems to be a pretty much safe buy for me.
I haven't started playing it yet, but I think I will soon.
Post by Nester the Lark on Jun 29, 2018 13:39:56 GMT -5
Despite the issues, it's still getting positive reviews. I'm not a stickler for graphics or minor localization issues, but I do like my games to work. At least, from what I've seen, the crashing issue seems to be associated with the digital version of the game.
But it's disappointing. Ys deserves better. It seems like Xseed is the only localization company that's done justice to it. Every other Western localization or third-party port usually messed it up somehow.
Speaking of Xseed, Ys: Memories of Celceta will be coming to PC in English on July 25. Its requirements seem a fair bit higher than Ys Seven's, so I question whether my old toaster PC could handle it well.
Post by nocturnal YL on Jun 30, 2018 16:24:11 GMT -5
A few hours in, and Ys VIII feels good so far. Doesn't feel even remotely like a bad port. The worst I've seen are the occasional frame drops and issues with the shadows, but there are no non-graphical issues whatsoever. No physics-related glitches so far, and the game feels very stable overall. It also has rather fast loading time.
There are some design choices I don't like (especially with the absence of full voice-acting), but overall, the game is good thus far.
As an aside, the control scheme confuses me a lot, since I jumped to this from FE Warriors.
Change player character
Sometimes I'd panic and try to attack by tapping the Y button in quick successions, with a rather hilarious result.
The buttons can be remapped for both games, but they don't have a one-to-one relation and I don't feel like messing with the default settings.
Post by Nester the Lark on Jul 1, 2018 10:42:35 GMT -5
I have the game, too, but haven't started on it yet. Your impressions are encouraging, tho. I look forward to getting into it, myself.
Anyway, thought I'd post this video of the Happy Console Gamer talking about how much exposure Ys VIII has been getting. He has been making videos on the Ys series for many years now, and one of the reasons he started a YouTube channel in the first place was because no one else was talking about it.
Although, I knew about Ys long before that. I probably first heard about it from gaming magazines in the early '90s, particularly Nintendo Power's coverage of Ys III on the SNES. I remember I considered renting it many times back then, but for whatever reason, I never got around to it. I continued to be curious about Ys for years, though, especially once I got internet access and was able to learn a little more about it from the few sparse articles I could find.
I didn't really get the opportunity to play it, though, until I tried the TurboGrafx version of Ys Book I & II on the Wii Virtual Console. Oddly, I wasn't really sold on the series until I played Ys Origin on PC a few years later. Been a fan ever since.
Post by nocturnal YL on Jul 1, 2018 11:04:58 GMT -5
I was always under the impression that Ys was a historically important series. It was a pivotal ARPG, making it almost as important as Fire Emblem is to SRPG in a sense. At least, that's what I was told. I also have the impression that it has good music, but that seems to be a Japanese-styled game thing. Everything from Ys to Touhou Project to Kirby excel in audio; it's almost a given.
I've always been curious about the series, but I never got around to play it. I knew about the PC versions, but I'm not interested in PC gaming in general (I use PC to talk about games a lot, but not for actually playing). I'm also not interested enough to get a PS3 or PS4 just for a few series I'm not even sure if I'll like, and by the time I did borrow a PS4 for Project DIVA, other games that associate with PS systems in the past started moving to the Switch. Oh well.
Currently in the middle of Part 2 (Chapter? Whatever is't localised as). So far, it's every bit as good as I'd imagine.
Post by nocturnal YL on Jul 12, 2018 0:58:56 GMT -5
I've beaten the game. 100% completion in all categories except enemies and items (since I didn't buy all equipment).
- The gameplay is solid. The action control feels great; it's fast-paced, but manageable. Despite some complaints, I don't think the lower frame rate makes Flash Move and Flash Guard difficult to execute.
- The general quality is higher than what I expect from a multiplatform game.
- I do have a major complaint, which is the story. See TV Tropes (first item) for why.
- I do generally like this game, but it remains to be seen if I'm interested in other games in the series. Right now I'm not; I just felt like fighting so hard for nothing.
Expect a longer story rant to come a bit later when I am free.
No matter what you do, Dana sacrifices herself to try and avoid the Lacrimosa, but the Earth Goddess wakes up and deletes everything that happened before. But in the True ending, everyone remembers what happens, so the memory of every other species being wiped out remains... including Dana's people. And as they ask the Goddess, does this mean they're just part of what ever she feels like dreaming? And the answer is yes. She has created and destroyed the souls of entire species, tormented some of them through various eras, and then just wiped out the lot, and left them with the knowledge of this.
Or possibly just gave them all a fake memory that she did, because how could you know what the truth was when the Goddess can just remake the world instantly like this?
Dana in turn has to become a new principle of evolution, and evolution in this mythos includes a Lacrimosa. So now Dana is responsible for guiding the development herself, and if she gets it wrong (the world becomes imbalanced), she has to destroy Adol's people with the very thing she fought the entire game to stop, a Lacrimosa. One she has to enforce herself.
However the only blessing is that "Dana" no longer exists, as such. She's just a concept. Only to cheer up Adol and party, she's returned to existence for them. And thus, knowledge of what she lost (her people), what she must do (be evolution) and that she won't see Adol et all again. Does she return to blessed nothingness after? We can only hope so. But Adol et all will remember her.
If you take the prior rules as valid in this one, in fact Adol has to be the one to either resist her and kill her (as the chosen Warden of his age) to break the cycle just as Dana came close to doing but could only replace not stop the cycle... or if there's a new set of rules, only the ones stated in the endings, then Adol and everyone can do nothing but hope Dana never destroys them. You're supposed to believe it's in the hands of the species themselves now. But they KNOW it's not. Judgement belongs to Dana and/or Maia.
This makes the Bad Ending actually the least painful one, because everyone but Adol simply forgets all that was revealed, and the true horror is hidden from them. But you the player still know...
TotalCowage the story is extremely fucked up if you think about it.
1) How does Maia's dreams work? Based on what the game said, everything in the Ys world happened because Maia dreamed about Adol's adventures (which would explain why he tend to get tangled into adventures, and why a lot of the Ys girls have blue hair and tend to be goddesses). So if she wakes up, her dream is supposed to end, so she couldn't talk to Adol and the gang since she's not dreaming of them.
Only explanation is that what she dreamt becomes real and continues to exist since that would explain why she is able to speak to the gang and Dana who is a figment of her dream, are capable of becoming a real character and a goddess to boot.
Which makes this more worse because the whole 'I woke up and ended the world thing' is basically Maia aligning her dream with reality since it doesn't make any more sense to her. This is because in her dream, the origin tree must exist to hold the world together. If that is gone, nothing holds the world anymore so logically, it must be gone.
And so, the only reason why Maia remade the world is because Dana 'corrected' the dream by replacing the function of the origin tree, thus making the dream made sense again to exist.
2) the lacrimosa...holy fucking crap. It is one of the most evilest doomsday mechanic I've ever seen in a fiction. The reason why it was made is because Maia got bored of a species and wanted them gone so that she can see the adventures of the next species while maintaining power control.
I mean, on what terms does the lacrimosa function. We were told that it happens when a species is rejected due to stagnation but what qualifies as stagnation? That their tech isn't progressing? That they aren't physically evolving?
I mean if we were talking about tech progression, it's natural to hit a roadblock like we humans have for thousands of years only to progress exponentially in the last century. If so, any species couldn't advance their tech to say our level becuase they'd hit the roadblock eventually and would get destroyed.
If we're talking about physical evolution, we'll, it's normal for a species to slow or stop evolution due to not requiring them because they bypass it using tools. Or in the case of Ura's species, since they can shapeshift, it means that they don't need evolution at all. But does it matter? Nope, lacrimosa!
Oh and don't forget, another reason for lacrimosa is to prevent one species to hold dominion on the planet for so long that the next sapient species couldn't rise up.
So that means that the lacrimosa will happen no matter what the species do. That each species basically living on a borrowed time, that they have no agency. Heck, the entire game is that. The gang couldn't truly stopped lacrimosa. Only somewhat make it better.
And the gang accept it rather easily too... I mean I practically ranted at the screen when I saw this.
Oh and another issue is when Maia said she has to go to sleep again. Why? Why would she need to go to sleep again? Just so she can dream again? If so, if my point 1 is correct, then the gang truly will have no agency whatsoever.
And that's even worse than the lacrimosa. Man, if this were other games such as the Tales series, they'd be fighting Maia and will themselves to existence instead of being wipe out.
EDIT 2 — Upon further research, it seems like this kind of downer-ish ending is the norm for this series. I guess it's not really my thing then.
Post by Nester the Lark on Jul 25, 2018 17:23:05 GMT -5
Here are some interesting comments from Falcom on the perception that Falcom doesn't like Nintendo:
When you released games on PSP was there any trouble deciding on the platform?
Toshihiro Kondo, Falcom President: At the time the Nintendo DS was extremely popular, so there was a flow of all the companies going with DS. After looking at the lineup of games that were selling on DS, we had a bit of a difficult time picturing our products fitting in there. Family-oriented games and games focusing on a younger audience were the ones becoming hits, after all.
In the end, the reason we decided to go with the PSP was because we determined that PSP users and Falcom fans simply overlapped. Although it was from there that people started saying “Falcom hates Nintendo.” [laughs]
Masayuki Kato, Falcom Founder: That’s right, always from a certain message board. [laughs]
Toshihiro Kondo: It’s not that we hate them, rather, we’ve always been wanting to become closer to them. [laughs]
When the DS was booming, I went with former president Yamasaki (former Falcom president Shinji Yamasaki) to greet them in Kyoto. At the time we even had their approval for development.
Rather than it being about console wars, I truly felt that “having released games on PSP” rejuvenated Falcom fans.
Toshihiro Kondo: As a result, I believe we felt that “it went well.” However, when we visited Kyoto that time, we went with newly written plans for a command-based RPG type of Ys game. It’s a shame that we couldn’t make it happen…
So we went that far and still had to be told “Falcom is hating”? [laughs]
Masayuki Kato: Yup. [laughs]
Toshihiro Kondo: Even recently right before releasing Ys VIII on the Nintendo Switch there was a bit of online flaming going on. Our publisher Nippon Ichi Software even got a phone call from Nintendo’s PR asking “Are you guys okay? and “Is Falcom okay?” But we didn’t think much of it.
Post by nocturnal YL on Jul 26, 2018 9:33:16 GMT -5
Spoiler warning for those clicking on the source link! …Do anyone else play this game, anyway?
I was always under the impression that games have obvious platform choices depending on their type. SRPG, RPG and ARPG (even the western ones) all feel like they belong to PlayStation, although there are also quite a lot of RPGs on Nintendo handhelds.
With handheld systems, I think there isn't much of a choice there, since both sides take very different approach. Home console-style games go to PSP and PS Vita, GBA-style games go to DS (3DS sits somewhere in between).
With home consoles, I honestly don't blame publishers for preferring PlayStation. Nintendo themselves don't have many home console RPGs, and they aren't particularly attractive to third party publishers either, given how unorthodox their systems are. I do regret a bit to see the Wii U not getting those though. Having two screens really benefit certain genres, including RPGs and adventure games for map, inventory and stats.
For some reason, Falcom always feel like they're at a loss when it comes to picking platforms. They felt at home with Japanaese home computers, but those stopped being a thing since Windows 95 single-handedly wiped out the entire home computer market wordwide(except Macs). The closest choice would be the modern PC, but that was increasingly less friendly for Japanese publishers. I feel that their choice of Playstation platforms was a logical one, since like I said before, RPGs just belng there. Everyone else did the same.
…Which also means the accusation of Falcom hating Nintendo would also apply to just about every publisher, except maybe Namco and Level-5.
By the way, I'd say Ys VIII actually feels rather Nintendo-styled, at least compared to their more complicated games. It reminds me a lot of Zelda, except that I can actually finish this. (Too bad that Ys VIII is also good at everything except story IMO… which is also a very Nintendo thing.)
Post by nocturnal YL on Aug 16, 2018 10:46:34 GMT -5
Here's a question for Nester: I'd like to know what you think about Ys VIII after playing it. I talked about what I think (everything's great except the ending) as a newcomer, but I want to see what a series veteran thinks about it.
If I'm not mistaken, this game uses the same general game system as Ys SEVEN, right? And you've played that before, right? How do these two compare?
Post by Nester the Lark on Aug 16, 2018 14:06:36 GMT -5
I have been meaning to post my thoughts on it, although I have not yet finished it. I am in the latter half of the game, but to be honest, I've gotten a little burned out, so I'm taking a break.
Burnout was also an issue I had with Ys Seven. Ys VIII is the biggest and most ambitious of all the Ys games, and it's said to be about twice as long as Ys Seven, which in turn was about twice as long as Ys VI. The Ys games used to be known for being fairly brisk playthroughs, and I think that suited their combat-heavy nature. While the combat is excellent, I do find that I get a little fatigued with it after a while.
Ys VIII does run on a modified version of the Ys Seven engine. Ys Seven was the first game in the series to use the party system (a controversial addition among fans). Also, in contrast to the previous few games, it did away with jumping in favor of a dodge move. Ys VIII brings back the jumping in addition to the dodging, and is also the first game in the series with a full 3D floating camera instead of a bird's-eye view. It all works well enough, but does feel to me that the engine wasn't originally intended for it.
In honesty, I think I preferred the bird's-eye view, as it was a little easier to be aware of everything going on during battle, and the camera wasn't constantly spinning around enemies. On the other hand, I think Ys VIII handles the party system much more gracefully, as it doesn't force you to constantly switch members as much. And when you do switch members, they simply trade places with each other, whereas in Ys Seven, the camera would actually pan to the other characters' positions, and it could be a little confusing.
The, uh, "time traveling" aspect of Ys VIII is interesting, but I feel that it interrupts the flow of the game. When I'm playing as Adol & company, I feel like I have to drop whatever I'm doing in order to do the Dana sections, and I found that kind of annoying. I would've rather just stuck with Adol.
Between Seven and VIII, I'm not sure yet which I prefer. Beyond that, I do prefer Ys VI (and Ys Origin, which ran on the same engine) to Seven and VIII.
In general, though, most fans seem much more to prefer VIII.
Post by nocturnal YL on Aug 16, 2018 14:58:11 GMT -5
Coming from more of a traditional RPG background, I think Ys VIII's length is just right. 70 hours for 100% completion feels rather short to me, but it's 70 hours full of active movement as opposed to reading dialogs and menus.
I'm fine with the 3D camera. The only problem I've had is that the camera moves too much, making it hard for Hummel to land hits. Other characters don't require that level of precision, so it's fine.
Switching characters feel very graceful. I don't have other games to compare to, but I'm glad I don't have to readjust to what I'm seeing every timeI change character. And on that note, the AI feels pretty smart most of the time (as far as Normal mode is concerned).
I actually like the Dana sections. It's annoying in gameplay terms, but as a storytelling device it works pretty well. They're all very short, anyway.
Looking forward to your final thoughts if you do finish it. It's actually the story that I'm most interested in hearing your thoughts on.
It was only earlier this year that Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana made its way to Nintendo Switch, and already Nihon Falcom are gearing up for the next title in the series. French outlet ActuGaming recently interviewed Nihon Falcom President Toshihiro Kondo, and alongside a variety of other questions about the company's history and games, they closed off their interview with a question directed at any potential readers might be able to look forward to. Kondo then confirmed, per a google translate posted by Twitter user @aboveup, that "Regarding the Ys series, we are working on a new game. It will not be a remake but a brand new title. It will be about Adol and it will be right after the events of Ys VIII. I hope you will look forward to it."
Post by Nester the Lark on Oct 24, 2018 11:02:38 GMT -5
Since its launch two years ago, Ys VIII has sold 500,000 units across all platforms and regions, which is quite impressive for a Falcom game.
There's no breakdown of the platforms, but Falcom had previously reported that the Switch version was significantly behind the PS4/Vita versions in Japan, whereas other unofficial sources claim the Switch version was the best-selling version in the West.
As for me, as of yesterday, I'm back on the Ys VIII grind. I hope to have it finished by the time the SNK 40th Anniversary Collection comes out in a few weeks. That should be easily doable, but then, whenever I think I'm getting near the end, it drags out a little bit longer.
Post by Nester the Lark on Oct 28, 2018 11:37:56 GMT -5
Finally finished Ys VIII! Now I can finally watch speedruns without spoiling anything.
My thoughts are about the same as what I posted before. I still feel the game has major pacing issues, especially once I realized that it's required to do most of the side quests to get the best ending. I'm fine with side quests, but between them and the Dana sections, they really felt more like distractions rather than additions. Ys VIII could've been a really well-paced 40 or 50-hour game, but a lot of the extra stuff seemed like mandatory padding to make the game longer.
As for the story (without getting into spoilers), I liked the whole "stranded on a prehistoric island" theme, and I thought that part was handled really well. The "lacrimosa" part added an extra twist to it, but I'm not sure it really "worked." As one review pointed out, maybe the narrative would've been a little stronger if there was an actual villain rather than just the island, itself. But still, the whole concept seems... contrived? Not well thought-out?
And the ending? Yeah, I can see why people wouldn't like it. It does feel like a cheat. Plus, it comes dangerously close to making it seem like the whole journey was for nothing, and that's something that can really put me off of a story.
I can understand why it was handled that way. Unlike the Trails/Kiseki series, the Ys games generally don't have overarching plots across multiple games, so each story needs to be self-contained. But I think other Ys games handled it better.
Overall, I don't think I would rank Ys VIII among my favorites in the series. Although, my opinion seems to be in the minority about that, as a lot of Ys fans do consider it one of the best. (Similarly, fans also hold The Oath In Felghana in high regard, but it never quite clicked with me, either.) Still, I'm really glad I had the chance to play it.
nocturnal YL: In a way, I'm glad I'm unrelated to those fan communities of the games I play. I just sit back and play games casually, not really caring whatever scandals or elitism or holier-than-thou attitudes going on.
Sept 1, 2020 12:04:16 GMT -5
Shrikeswind: I think I need to track down some horribly cursed Pokemon content now after that. You know, since that was such a heavy topic to drop in the middle of a quiet forum.
Sept 1, 2020 12:44:53 GMT -5
Nester the Lark: Also, I know YL isn't into speedruns, but he might be interested to know that RPG Limit Break is having a Gust marathon all weekend, including several Atelier games.
Sept 25, 2020 22:01:18 GMT -5
nocturnal YL: Ah… Bad timing. I didn't read this until now, when it's almost over.
Sept 27, 2020 12:59:22 GMT -5
Nester the Lark: Well, if you're still interested, they'll be uploading the replays to their YouTube channel later this week.
Sept 27, 2020 17:58:41 GMT -5
Shrikeswind: I like that Mayles put her back in her kneepads. What's the last game they were in? One of the Kongas? It was a good look for her, albeit very 90's.
Oct 4, 2020 19:37:15 GMT -5