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Post by Old Man Rupee on Oct 4, 2007 13:48:52 GMT -5
Woah, first Classic Gaming post in ages!
Anyway, here's a question to start a debate:
We all know about the whole "multiple Links" fiasco, but I've often wondered, are there multiple Master Swords? I for one get the feeling that it's the same one throughout the series. If so, can anyone track it's timeline?
And is there an established backstory to the sword that anyone knows about? Who forged it for example?
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Post by TV Eye on Oct 4, 2007 15:50:25 GMT -5
There's only one Master Sword that first appeared in the Lost Woods in a Link to the Past. Then it was placed in the Temple of Time. Then later, Hyrule Castle (Wind Waker).
That's all I really know...
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 4, 2007 16:24:59 GMT -5
It couldn't have gone from the Lost Woods to the Temple of Time, because OoT is set a long time before ALttP. That's one of the few things we do know for certain.  TP kind of bridges the gap between them. In OoT it's in the Temple of time, in ALttP it's in the Lost Woods... but in TP, which presumably comes in between the two, it's in the ruins of the Temple of Time, which are now deep in the woods. The small area that the Master Sword rests in even looks identical to that old ALttP artwork of it. |
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Post by TV Eye on Oct 4, 2007 16:30:22 GMT -5
It couldn't have gone from the Lost Woods to the Temple of Time, because OoT is set a long time before ALttP. That's one of the few things we do know for certain. TP kind of bridges the gap between them. In OoT it's in the Temple of time, in ALttP it's in the Lost Woods... but in TP, which presumably comes in between the two, it's in the ruins of the Temple of Time, which are now deep in the woods. The small area that the Master Sword rests in even looks identical to that old ALttP artwork of it. Ah...I see. That answers a lot of questions. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 4, 2007 17:56:48 GMT -5
What we know... SPOILERS AHEAD!!
The Master Sword appears in ALttP, OoT, TWW and TP only.
At the beginning of ALttP it is in the Lost Woods, where Link finds it. He has it tempered twice, and by the end of the game it is returned to the Lost Woods where it sleeps, supposedly forever. Suggesting this is the last time it is used.
In OoT, which we can assume is the first game in the timeline, the Master Sword is sealed inside the Temple of Time as the gateway to the Spiritual Realm. At the end of the game it is returned to the Temple of Time.
In TWW, it is set in a stone in the basement of Hyrule Castle, which is underwater. Link powers it up. At the end of the game it is embedded in Ganondorf's skull, turning him to stone, and then buried under the ocean.
So far they all seem fairly unconnected. And then...
In TP, the Master Sword is set into the Sacred Grove - the ruins of the Temple of Time... which just happens to be where it was left in OoT. And you know what? When the game is over... HE PUTS IT BACK!!
Argh!
Tracking the location of the Master Sword is one of the ways Zelda fans try to plot the storyline. But as you can see, the ties are always broken. This suggests that TP comes straight after OoT, while other things in TP suggest it takes place in the same area as ALttP. But depending on the placement of TWW, one or the other is not possible without further developments (such as the draining of the Great Sea).
Which is why I hate talking about Zelda storylines... I'm not convinced there really is one.
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Post by Savage Adam on Oct 4, 2007 18:02:58 GMT -5
My theory is the sword is alive and can move from place to place.
I know it sounds dumb, but if you think about it, it really isnt.
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Post by Spud on Oct 4, 2007 20:47:36 GMT -5
What we know... SPOILERS AHEAD!! The Master Sword appears in ALttP, OoT, TWW and TP only. At the beginning of ALttP it is in the Lost Woods, where Link finds it. He has it tempered twice, and by the end of the game it is returned to the Lost Woods where it sleeps, supposedly forever. Suggesting this is the last time it is used. In OoT, which we can assume is the first game in the timeline, the Master Sword is sealed inside the Temple of Time as the gateway to the Spiritual Realm. At the end of the game it is returned to the Temple of Time. In TWW, it is set in a stone in the basement of Hyrule Castle, which is underwater. Link powers it up. At the end of the game it is embedded in Ganondorf's skull, turning him to stone, and then buried under the ocean. So far they all seem fairly unconnected. And then... In TP, the Master Sword is set into the Sacred Grove - the ruins of the Temple of Time... which just happens to be where it was left in OoT. And you know what? When the game is over... HE PUTS IT BACK!! Argh! Tracking the location of the Master Sword is one of the ways Zelda fans try to plot the storyline. But as you can see, the ties are always broken. This suggests that TP comes straight after OoT, while other things in TP suggest it takes place in the same area as ALttP. But depending on the placement of TWW, one or the other is not possible without further developments (such as the draining of the Great Sea). Which is why I hate talking about Zelda storylines... I'm not convinced there really is one. Well, this will be wierd but... it might work if OoT takes place in two different places in the storyline unfortunately creating a paradox. Let's say Ganondorf is locked away in OoT, Returns in WW gets turned to stone and Stone Ganondorf gets chipped away into a stand for the master sword that is left in the temple of time in OoT. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 5, 2007 4:30:10 GMT -5
The split timeline theory? Yep, I've been an active proponent of that theory since it first popped into my head... many years ago! I wonder where that theory first appeared... if it was on the Zelda Legends website via their storyline way back in 2000... I do believe the whole split timeline theory may have its origins in my sexy brain!! ;D Is it possible... that the stark differences between TWW and TP are a result of them each being a separate sequel to OoT? More of what we know... MORE SPOILAAAARZ!! Between OoT and TWW, Ganon returned and no hero appeared, so the world was flooded to protect it. The opening storyline directly references OoT, suggesting this was the first such incident. At the end, Hyrule is still flooded and both Link and Zelda go off in search of a new Hyrule. Is the world unflooded again? Do they return to the original Hyrule? Maybe this is explained in Phantom Hourglass. Why haven't you all played and completed it yet? It's supposed to be the best DS game so far! You big losers!!  TP takes place in the same region as OoT, but there are also suggestions that it takes place in the same region as ALttP. ALttP takes place in the same region as Zelda 1 (Lost Woods, Death Mountain, Spectacle Rock) and Zelda 2 (which also shows the expanded Northern Hyrule). So, the only way this works out is if they all take place in the same location, and there are no "extra Hyrules" discovered after TWW. -------------------------------------- What's worse is that there is always some inconsistency. The Lost Woods being in the South East in LoZ, the North West in ALttP, the East in OoT and we can assume it's in the South East in TP (the right-way-round GC version). Its location in TWW, judging by the location of the Great Deku Tree suggests it is roughly consistent with OoT's location. Death Mountain doesn't move so much We can assume locations change and move for the benefit of the game, and we can assume that the boundaries of Hyrule are also changing. We also have to think of it as a steady development (or evolution) from the very simplistic Hyrule of LoZ right up to the beautiful and complex environment of TP. Remember... when they made the NES and SNES titles, they probably never thought they would make Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker. Drumming up a consistent Zelda storyline is not an easy task, but I do think the split timeline must occur for sense to be made, and I do think there is just one Master Sword and one Triforce. Until recently I was also convinced there was just one Ganondorf - only Four Swords suggests to me otherwise, and to a much smaller (and possibly explain-away-able) extent, TP. But it's a nightmare. Maybe here we can finally drum up the answer? Although as soon as there's petty arguments and flaming, it's being locked. |
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 5, 2007 4:43:50 GMT -5
The split timeline theory? Yep, I've been an active proponent of that theory since it first popped into my head... many years ago! I wonder where that theory first appeared... if it was on the Zelda Legends website via their storyline way back in 2000... I do believe the whole split timeline theory may have its origins in my sexy brain!! ;D Is it possible... that the stark differences between TWW and TP are a result of them each being a separate sequel to OoT? Wasn't the split timeline idea confirmed to be correct in an interview before Wind Waker was released? I'm sure I've brought this up here before, but... Q: Where does The Wind Waker fit into the overall Zelda series timeline?
Aonuma: You can think of this game as taking place over a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. You can tell this from the opening story, and there are references to things from Ocarina located throughout the game as well.
Miyamoto: Well, wait, which point does the hundred years start from?
Aonuma: From the end.
Miyamoto: No, I mean, as a child or as a...
Aonuma: Oh, right, let me elaborate on that. Ocarina of Time basically has two endings of sorts; one has Link as a child and the other has him as an adult. This game, The Wind Waker, takes place a hundred years after the adult Link defeats Ganon at the end of Ocarina.
Miyamoto: This is pretty confusing for us, too. (laughs) So be careful.It's a little vague, but I can't see that they possibly could've meant anything else. The only other possibility is that Miyamoto was saying "Wait, is it over a hundred years later, or over a hundred and seven?" which is ridiculous. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 5, 2007 6:39:14 GMT -5
Good to know the split timeline is "official" - although these interviews tend to throw up even more confusion and inconsistencies.
So Ganondorf is sealed in the Sacred Realm and Link returns to being a child on a separate timeline. So when Ganondorf returns in the adult timeline, nobody is there to stop him, and the world is consumed by the Great Sea.
So if OoT is a retelling of the imprisoning war in ALttP, we can assume they exist along a separate timeline where Ganon is trapped in the Sacred Realm (which becomes the Dark World). Link then enters the Sacred Realm and kills Ganon.
Now we have to put Twilight Princess in there somewhere. I'm gonna go track down some interviews or something.
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Post by wanderingshadow on Oct 5, 2007 6:44:19 GMT -5
What we know... SPOILERS AHEAD!! The Master Sword appears in ALttP, OoT, TWW and TP only. Sorry FryGuy, but you're wrong there. The Master Sword appears in Oracle of Ages or Oracle of Seasons, depending on which you play first. In the first game, you can find someone who will give you a password that will unlock it in the second game. |
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Post by kirbychu on Oct 5, 2007 6:51:11 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure TP slots in between OoT and ALttP somewhere. It seems to have a lot of elements from both in there. The only thing that throws it off is that Ganon seems to... just plain die at the end. I'm not so sure the Master Sword in the Oracles games counts. It's not part of the story, just an unlockable extra. |
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Post by Savage Adam on Oct 5, 2007 8:27:41 GMT -5
I still think my idea is posible.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Oct 5, 2007 8:51:31 GMT -5
I still think my idea is posible. What, that the Master Sword is alive and moves around of its own accord? No, somehow I don't think it is. This isn't Disney's Fantasia. As for the Oracles... I'm still very sketchy as to how they fit in. But is Link given the Master Sword? Is his sword upgraded to "Master Sword"? I never played with the old password system, so I have no idea. And yes, it doesn't seem to be a "proper" Master Sword as it plays no part in the story. But this is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about... someone will always find some petty little thing and then throw your whole thing out the window because "you are wrong". Nobody knows the storyline, and there's two paths we can take: 1. RELIGIOUS Trying to make sense of the Bible, as an example. Nobody will ever agree, but people will stick to some preconceived idea, ignore certain facts, and act like everyone else is wrong. Maybe even kill each other and have wars over it. This is the default state of the human mind on the Zelda storyline issue. 2. SCIENTIFIC So we don't know all the answers. There is a complete answer somewhere out there, but we can only see part of it. All we can do is posit theories. If they are faulty somewhere, that does not presuppose the whole thing is incorrect. We should be civil and point out the flaws, and discuss the severity of the flaws. Then we should see where certain theories take us. With the first approach we will endlessly circle around, fighting and flaming each other, just like religious zealots. With the second approach, we should be eventually be able to predict the plot of the next Zelda game!! ;D |
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Post by TV Eye on Oct 5, 2007 9:50:05 GMT -5
I still think my idea is posible. What, that the Master Sword is alive and moves around of its own accord? No, somehow I don't think it is. This isn't Disney's Fantasia. As for the Oracles... I'm still very sketchy as to how they fit in. But is Link given the Master Sword? Is his sword upgraded to "Master Sword"? I never played with the old password system, so I have no idea. And yes, it doesn't seem to be a "proper" Master Sword as it plays no part in the story. But this is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about... someone will always find some petty little thing and then throw your whole thing out the window because "you are wrong". Nobody knows the storyline, and there's two paths we can take: 1. RELIGIOUS Trying to make sense of the Bible, as an example. Nobody will ever agree, but people will stick to some preconceived idea, ignore certain facts, and act like everyone else is wrong. Maybe even kill each other and have wars over it. This is the default state of the human mind on the Zelda storyline issue. 2. SCIENTIFIC So we don't know all the answers. There is a complete answer somewhere out there, but we can only see part of it. All we can do is posit theories. If they are faulty somewhere, that does not presuppose the whole thing is incorrect. We should be civil and point out the flaws, and discuss the severity of the flaws. Then we should see where certain theories take us. With the first approach we will endlessly circle around, fighting and flaming each other, just like religious zealots. With the second approach, we should be eventually be able to predict the plot of the next Zelda game!! ;D Getting into a religious discussion now, eh Fry? I disagree with the point you tried to make. Though plausible, it doesn't really give religion much credit. Religion is almost as faulty as science! If you throw the Bible in there, you can't really trust it, since King James translated it into English, and he was sorta corrupt. (Wow, am I talking about this in a Nintendo forum?) Anyways, people believed Jesus was black...blah blah blah...that King James was racist...even more blah blah blah... AND TO MY POINT! Miyamoto could be represented as King James and try to make sense of things, but only does so to his liking. WHOO! There. Wow...that made more sense than I originally planned! |
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