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Post by Hiker of Games on May 22, 2006 10:44:36 GMT -5
What would be stupid is having a fighting game series that has the same characters and only adds a few with each installment until the screen has tiny 2x2 icons representing each character. The Wii may be able to handle a bazillion characters, but a player's choice should be reasonably limited to a chararacter selection screen that won't overwhelm them. That there is a major limitation besides just space on the disk.
So the way I see it, if we want a lot of new characters, some oldbies would inevitably have to be cut.
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Post by amazingeee on May 22, 2006 12:35:38 GMT -5
Hahaha, what? What do you think would be too many characters? At what point do you reach a rotating cast of the same amount of characters? Because thats a point when people are done with the series.
I don't think anyone is going to avoid a game because the character select screen is too "overwhelming" for them. They will avoid it if their favorite characters get cut, and they will avoid it if the cast does not grow by a reasonably high amount. Personally I think we're looking at about 40 characters, and I don't know how they're going to hit that if they randomly start cutting ones that are already close to completion. In the original game they designed 11 movesets. In Melee it was 8 plus Luigi. If they design 10 new movesets this time, and add 5 new clones, they won't even hit 40 characters if they cut anyone. Do you really think 40 is too much for people to handle?
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 22, 2006 17:48:38 GMT -5
I don't like the clones. Clones only exist because of the Gamecube's constraints. That's not to say I don't use them... let me explain... If you take Link and Young Link, I will use Young Link. Why? Because he's more agile. Why not just make Link more agile and scrap Young Link? Same goes for Falco and Fox. I admit it would be a shame to see Falco leave, as he's got a lot of fans - but I think Fox would be used a lot more if Falco was removed and his best moves given to Fox. Pichu and Doctor Mario are either too similar or worse to the characters they are cloning that they will more than likely be scrapped. Ganondorf? I expect a new moveset. Roy? I expect he will be replaced by a newer Fire Emblem character. So remove Roy and replace him with Ike? Remove Pichu and replace him with another Pokemon? Remove Dr. Mario and replace him with nothing, because Mario and Luigi are similar enough? I have no doubt that SSBB will be filled with characters, and I also have no doubt that Sakurai and his team will have no trouble filling all of those slots. I just don't want them to keep characters that really add little or nothing to the game or to its secondary target of opening gamers' eyes to Nintendo titles. And if Nintendo is in talks with third-parties about their characters, they will no doubt be able to reach 40 characters in no time. So long as they remember ROB the Robot, Takamaru and Sukapon  |
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Post by amazingeee on May 22, 2006 19:00:51 GMT -5
They have an endless amount of worthy characters to choose from, it is development time which is an issue. My understanding of it has always been that development time, not disc space, was the issue with the clones.
If my choices were 40 characters with no clones or 40 characters with 10 clones, obviously I would choose the first, but it isn't really an option. Characters which have to be designed from the ground up take a lot more development time than those which just need to have their specs tweaked and a new shell slapped on them. If they were to ditch the clones and just work on new movesets, they could not replace the 6 lost characters with 6 new ones, but 1 or 2.
What I most hope for is that all the clones get the Luigi treatment, (and regardless of that, all the clones will likely have different "supers.") But you could easily throw a bazooka from SF Assault onto Falco for his <B> or have the Doctor pull viruses from the ground like turnips or replace Young Links bombs with bombchus and his ^B with a deku leaf. The result would be that no one's favorite character was lost, and the total number of characters in the game would be higher. Maybe a few less all new characters, but I think from a marketing standpoint (as well as what I would prefer) keeping all the oldbies and having a higher total amount is more desirable than having a few more new movesets.
BTW, I agree with you on Roy leaving for a newer FE character, and on Ganondorf picking up his own moves.
But what I take issue with more than the idea of cutting clones is the idea of cutting anyone with a unique moveset. Nothing would stymie my excitement for this game like finding out that Sheik or G&W or Jigglypuff or Mewtwo or any of the other 19 original movesets were not returning. I wouldn't mind if Ness was replaced by a brother from another Mother (ha), or even if Sheik became a seperate character while Zelda took on her cloaked TP look (in the 90% probability that that is indeed Zelda), but for God's sake, don't totally throw away a moveset.
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 23, 2006 5:19:11 GMT -5
I don't want to see any of the unique moveset characters removed, but I have a feeling some will. Shiek is my favourite character, but what if they gave the majority of her moves and speed to another character - say Zero Suit Samus? Then we haven't lost a character so much as given Zelda a new Down-B attack.
As for the others that "might be" removed - Mr. Game & Watch, Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, etc... I don't think they're going anywhere. They might be tweaked (I hope MrG&W is given a full makeover) but I expect they'll all return. I don't think Ness should be removed in favour of a Mother 3 character, but he might... as I know that was the intention during development of SSBM. Better still... two Mother characters? It's more likely.
I would be happy if only the clones were scrapped or given their own movesets. I want to see more new characters, including some obscurities, and I want to see most of the old characters return - but I won't cry for Pichu or Young Link in the same way that I would cry for Jigglypuff (who I have loved playing as since SSB).
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Post by amazingeee on May 23, 2006 12:10:51 GMT -5
I could see Zamus using the energy whip in place of Sheiks chain, and doing a charged shot instead of the needles, and doing everything else pretty much the same, but I'd rather see them better utilize that whip.
It does turn out some characters will be dropped according to a translation of Sakurai floating around, but whether that will just be clones or not is yet to be seen...
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Post by Smashchu on May 23, 2006 15:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by amazingeee on May 24, 2006 1:46:02 GMT -5
Of course I spoke too soon and some characters leaving is confirmed. I still think it will mostly if not entirely be clones leaving...
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 24, 2006 3:50:28 GMT -5
I suspect that may be the case too, and it would be the best case scenario.
But I wouldn't be entirely surprised if some "original moveset" characters were removed or changed. That's all I'm saying.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on May 24, 2006 8:07:31 GMT -5
The thing is, though, with Sakurai seemingly so obsessed with putting as much fan-service in this game, I wouldn't be surprised if all the Melee Characters got in the game somehow, even if its a costume, or even seperate downloads at a later stage or something.
Who knows? The fact is, even Sakurai and the team probably don't at this point.
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Post by amazingeee on May 24, 2006 12:04:55 GMT -5
Sakurai said they are basically reapproaching all the characters and sounded like he was a little disappointed that they had put a bunch of clones in to reach that number of 26 in Melee. His goal now seems to be to have a big character list, but without clones, and only after taking a second shot at balancing all the current characters. So I have a feeling Ganondorf will return with mostly new moves, and possibly the same for Falco, since those would be obvious character choices had they not ever been clones. But some characters like Doc and Pichu especially, who don't have much potential to be different from Mario or Pikachu, are the ones that will leave right away. I think they will reapproach all the characters with unique movesets, trying to get a better balance, and so if a character like Mewtwo or G&W or Sheik doesn't make the cut, I don't think it will be for lack of trying. That's basically what I read into it...
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Post by Fryguy64 on May 24, 2006 12:48:43 GMT -5
It does all boil down to balance. The reason I think there will only be one Fire Emblem character is because of the current overabundance of sword fighters. Especially now that Meta-Knight has joined the fray - and hopefully Takamaru  I'm looking forward to finding out a lot more |
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Post by Wildcat on May 24, 2006 13:22:16 GMT -5
Don't forget that Fire Emblem has more than just swords - Epharim used a lance, Soren uses magic, Hector used an axe, etc. There's a chance for more than one.
Anyway, I'm fine if some characters don't come back. I hope Capt. Falcon returns most of all. He's my personal favorite. I'd also be sad if Mewtwo, Marth or Ganondorf left (although I do want Ganondorf to have his own moves). I do hope most the clones leave or become their own unique movelists (Young Link, Ganondorf and Falco have the best chances). But if the team feels that needs ot happen, then that's fine. Link and Samus are in there, and I'm curious as to how Wario, Pit and Meta-Knight all fit in. So much to spectulate over...
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Post by Dasher Misire on May 24, 2006 14:08:28 GMT -5
I'd like to see Lyn or Sain from FE6 in this game, but someone linked me a picture showing there's a connection between the castle in SSBB and a character who seems to be from Path of Radiance. I think Fryguy was looking for the answer to the flag, well someone found it, and here's the link: content.ytmnd.com/content/c/2/c/c2c43f9af5d229df880aa4fe8897c7d7.jpgMG&W should get the model he had in the trophy section, as in with a 3D outline, or maybe just use something like the GCN one. But I'd like to see him get eyes similar to the ones many G&W characters have. Balloon Fighter is a character I want in even more. I'd like Tamagon too but NOA is against religious games so that wouldn't go through well unless they dumbed down his attacks like Tetris DS' Devil World scene. |
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Post by Smashchu on May 24, 2006 14:51:20 GMT -5
I think they might pull Roy. He was only in for advertising purposes and this could make room for another sword fighter. I think Mewtwo and G&W would be the only original characters to get pulled. Maybe IC and Jigglypuff, but thats not so likely.
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