Update #114: Excitebike

[Fryguy64]

kirbychu said:

You guys think that Fryguy is a pixel or retro hater? I laugh at you. Loudly and openly.

Thanks KC! ;D

I pre-empted the Star Fox thing. What action is he performing? Something that Andross doesn't do in any of his other iterations. So go for Metal Andross. And even then, they cleaned his 3D model up and made it look shinier.

And the Pokemon? No, I'm not happy when the models are low-poly and have not been updated. That is also lazy. But given the distance you usually see them at, they usually blend in.

But this is just lazy. It doesn't suit the game's style at all. The attention to detail is what makes a Smash game a Smash game. Corners might get cut, but this corner has been cut so harshly that it BURNS!

[Smashchu]

admin said:

But this is just lazy. It doesn't suit the game's style at all. The attention to detail is what makes a Smash game a Smash game. Corners might get cut, but this corner has been cut so harshly that it BURNS!

Don't call it lazy. If it was lazy, it'd be done to xcut corners. It's done to promote a different style so calling it lazy is flat out wrong. The Pokemon can be considered lazy as they have lower polygon counts. These are just sprites, so they are ment to be that way. Not lazy.

[Manspeed]

For such low-ploy models, the Pokemon we've seen so far look pretty smooth, if you ask me. A step up from Melee, if I may say so.

[Dances in Undergarments]

You guys (or some of you) really think its laziness? Are you serious?

Its a design choice, just like 2D crayony looking Yoshi's Island (and no doubt some of the Yoshi assists that will also have the crayon style), cel shaded looking Wind Waker aspects, completely black silouetted Game & Watch aspects, etc, etc.

Could both of these work as 3D? Sure. But 2D works well with these too, so I see no problem.

[vorpal]

admin said:

kirbychu said:

You guys think that Fryguy is a pixel or retro hater? I laugh at you. Loudly and openly.

Thanks KC! ;D

I pre-empted the Star Fox thing. What action is he performing? Something that Andross doesn't do in any of his other iterations. So go for Metal Andross. And even then, they cleaned his 3D model up and made it look shinier.

And the Pokemon? No, I'm not happy when the models are low-poly and have not been updated. That is also lazy. But given the distance you usually see them at, they usually blend in.

But this is just lazy. It doesn't suit the game's style at all. The attention to detail is what makes a Smash game a Smash game. Corners might get cut, but this corner has been cut so harshly that it BURNS!

If that was originally aimed at me, I was not referring to you directly.

But I fundamentally disagree. If Mr. Game & Watch and the Mushroom Kingdom stages fit into the design of the original and Melee, then this DOES fit Brawl's style. It is not cutting corners. It is making a deliberate design decision that serves a specific purpose.

[Deleted]

arcadenik said:

They are not retro haters, they are pixel haters.

But great posts, fliptroopa and vorpal, totally agree with you guys. Sakurai chose to make Excitebike and Lakitu pixels because 1) he wanted to and 2) for nostalgia purposes and 3) it saves time and space and most importantly 4) its his game so he can do whatever HE SEES FIT.

Sakurai is making the game as he sees fit, not what we see fit. So sure, we may be disappointed with some aspects of the game but there are plenty other aspects to enjoy the game.

Oh, god, shut up! No, we're not retro or sprite haters! Some of my favorite games are retro/done with sprites! It's not that it looks out of place, either, because we've already had out of place stuff like Game & Watch!

We hate how lazy it is that these Assists have been done this way, and for the record, that goes for the crap Pokémon models as well! Stop inferring things in a weak attempt to make us look incompetent, you punk. I won't repeat myself again for you just because you've got comprehension constipation.

smashchu2 said:

admin said:

But this is just lazy. It doesn't suit the game's style at all. The attention to detail is what makes a Smash game a Smash game. Corners might get cut, but this corner has been cut so harshly that it BURNS!

Don't call it lazy. If it was lazy, it'd be done to xcut corners. It's done to promote a different style so calling it lazy is flat out wrong. The Pokemon can be considered lazy as they have lower polygon counts. These are just sprites, so they are ment to be that way. Not lazy.

It's laaaaaaaaaazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[Spud]

It is a touch lazy. But I love it all the same. I certanly don't want the game to go overboard with sprite ATs. But perhaps these will be used in some really weird retro level of SSE. That would be neat and it would justify a few Spritey ATs.

For the practicality purpose, Exitabike might be this way because of how many you have on the screen at once. Lakitu's going to have to toss quite a few spines though to keep that in line.

Lazy yes, awful maybe. I still like it.

[TV Eye]

I must also agree, it is pretty lazy. I mean really, Pit was re-done, and ExciteBike was re-done as a 3D trophy in Melee, so why couldn't they do that here? And how many games has Lakitu been 3D? I don't understand why they made him 2D! It's only representing one game. Super Mario Bros. I mean, even the Paper Mario Lakitu's would have been better! They had more animations and time actually spent animating them!

[NinjaRygar]

....it's not really that big a deal?

[Smashchu]

Let me ask you this Tei. Was it lazy that in Super Paper Mario you could become a big pixilated version of yourself. Couldn't they have made a better rendering of that, or even make it 3D.

The thing that annoys me is people presume lazy when it doesn't look appeling to them, or to justify their beliefe. Truth is, it's not lazyness. In fact, it's in no way true. By definition it's " averse or disinclined to work, activity, or exertion; indolent.". So, no, it's not lazy. In order for it to be lazy, they would have done this as to make it easier. That's not the case (pokemon maybe). They did this as a style. It's also not justifiable (at least in my eyes) to say you dislike it because it feels "lazy". That is very ambiguous, and seem more to add a logical reason why you dislike it.

You can hate it, that's your biss. But I feel it incorrect to say that it's lazy, you even that you hate it because it's lazy.

[Arcadenik]

admin said:

kirbychu said:

You guys think that Fryguy is a pixel or retro hater? I laugh at you. Loudly and openly.

Thanks KC! ;D

I pre-empted the Star Fox thing. What action is he performing? Something that Andross doesn't do in any of his other iterations. So go for Metal Andross. And even then, they cleaned his 3D model up and made it look shinier.

And the Pokemon? No, I'm not happy when the models are low-poly and have not been updated. That is also lazy. But given the distance you usually see them at, they usually blend in.

But this is just lazy. It doesn't suit the game's style at all. The attention to detail is what makes a Smash game a Smash game. Corners might get cut, but this corner has been cut so harshly that it BURNS!

Well, that's your opinion. What matters the most is Sakurai's opinion. We all might disagree with some of Sakurai's ideas for Brawl, but he's the one who's making the game. So he puts in whatever HE sees fit, not what WE see fit.

Some of us think Animal Crossing doesn't fit in the Brawl atmosphere, but guess what? Sakurai put tons of Animal Crossing elements in Brawl anyway.

Some of us think that 2D graphics and cel-shaded graphics don't fit in the Smash games, but guess what? He put them all in the Smash games anyway.

Some of us think certain characters should be playable (Lyn, Goroh, Deoxys) and Sakurai made them unplayable.

Some of us think certain characters shouldn't be playable (Snake, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard) and Sakurai made them playable.

So really, we all have our ideas of what fit and don't fit in the game but Sakurai also has his own ideas of what fit and what don't fit in Brawl, too. Even Sakurai admitted Excitebike isn't fit to be playable in Melee so he settled on the Ice Climbers and look what happened! Excitebike is an AT!

Sakurai even made Dr. Mario playable in Melee just because he liked his music!

I admit I don't agree with his decision to make the Melee clones because that's just lazy. Just make new models for characters and then copy and paste codes and change the variables in the codes, the worst crime being Ganondorf as Captain Falcon's clone.

[TV Eye]

Well, I guess there's really no way of any of us to say it's "lazy" until we actually see it. Until we see the animations of the Excitebike changing directions as being like this <--- to suddenly like this ---> .

That...would be lazy.

[NinjaRygar]

Pure and utter lazyness would have been to not have assist trophies at all.

Taking another look at those screenshots... I actually think Lakitu looks really cool.

[Smashchu]

tveye said:

Well, I guess there's really no way of any of us to say it's "lazy" until we actually see it. Until we see the animations of the Excitebike changing directions as being like this <--- to suddenly like this ---> .

That...would be lazy.

Well, it really wouldn't be lazy because that's what sprites do. Of course, if they actually turn, that'd be nice.

[Johans Nidorino]

ninjarygar said:

....it's not really that big a deal?

It isn't.

I believe that the Ice Climbers main trophy in SSBM is like that because it was intended to be retro... I didn't like it much, and I didn't like the trophies of the Star Fox crew, and some other examples that hint some... "will" to do it like it is.

And like TV Eye says, I also want to see the final product first. Which by now looks so fantastic, I'll do my best to protect my life during these months ;D