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Post by Dasher Misire on Nov 22, 2007 19:07:44 GMT -5
Treasure makes some of the best games around, including Gunstar Heroes and Dynamite Headdy (I plan on trying Mischief Makers soon too, looks great). But Sin & Punishment is perhaps their greatest. Saki looks excellent.
I think Saki, Lyn, and Little Mac all looked like they could have been playable with the models. But Mac and Saki work perfectly as ATs for now. Lyn is a pretty strong AT so I don't mind as much anymore... Goroh should be playable, I'm not making peace with that... but his model's a bit lesser.
Other models like Dr. Wright and Devil look pretty good as well but... it wasn't likely at all they'd be playable so I don't think they fit into that category.
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 22, 2007 22:15:40 GMT -5
Well, not all can be playable.
Looking back at it, I can see why he did this. Looking at the poll, I can safely say there are 4 characters who stand the best chance: Ridley, Krystal, Olimar and Takamaru. All have potential and a lot of popularity. Right now there are 10 newcomers +ZSS. Adding 4 makes 14. But if another third party gets in, we have 15, and I wouldn't doubt there would be one more characters that just blows us away like PT. So, 16. But this is 16 new characters (plus ZSS for 17). If he hits that (and probably will or get REALLY close) it would be a phenomenal feat.
It's for this reason why a lot of these guys were pushed to the side. If we say Ness, Sheik, Dr. Mario, Y. Link, Roy and Pichu are gone, add 16 then we have 36 characters, ~44% of which are new. It's safe to say he couldn't add everyone.
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Post by parrothead on Nov 22, 2007 23:28:42 GMT -5
ON TOPIC: Saki is another sword fighter as an Assist Trophy. However, his Cannon Sword is a combination of a lightsaber (called the Night Stick, which isn't an ordinary sword made of metal) and a blaster (called the G&R-M64-JPC DOLPHIN POLICE STANDARD GUN (or simply the Dolphin Gun)). OFF TOPIC: SmashChu, Young Link is another SSBM clone that has a pretty high chance at appearing in SSBB along with Ganondorf. Why? The "Wind Waker Link/Cel-Shaded Link/Celda/Cat-eyed Link/etc. Link" is the Young Link of today. Wind Waker Link (which is one of the new Young Links) was mentioned in Sakurai's SSBB poll three times. There are more Young Links than there are Adult Links, and here's why: - According to SSBB, Link was young when he was in the very first Zelda.
- In Zelda: A Link to the Past + Zelda: Four Swords, Link's voice is the same as OoT/MM Young Link's, which means he was young during that time.
- The official Zelda: A Link to the Past promo artworks were also used for Zelda: Link's Awakening/DX. Link was young in ALttP, which probably means that he was also young in Link's Awakening. Nintendo used the same style of Wind Waker promo artworks for some Zelda titles made later, which Link was also young in those same titles (e.g. Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, The Minish Cap and Phantom Hourglass).
- The sprites in Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons were taken from Link's Awakening, while Link looks young in both Oracle titles.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2007 0:22:45 GMT -5
Personally, I see returning Melee fighters coming back with the following chances:
Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Luigi: The "No-Brainers." The Legend of Zelda has few consistent characters that appear across generations--and I don't mean that like how Tetra is in WW and PH. I'm thinking more of a Tingle factor, where he's been in MM (the OoT generation), WW and Four Swords Adventures. And to an extent, Twilight Princess, since the guy in Hyrule Castle Town that runs the STAR game was confirmed to be a realistic version of Tingle by Aonuma. As such, Ganondorf is the only character who has really been consistant aside from Link and Zelda, so it makes sense for him to come back.
Captain Falcon, meanwhile, is the main character for F-Zero, and his moveset represents the series: fast and high-powered. Since F-Zero still has an icon and a conceivable choice for a character, it's unlikely he's gone, either.
And Luigi...really, do I need to explain this? I think everyone sees where I'm going here.
Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Jigglypuff: The "Have A Chancers." While Marth and Game & Watch stand out due to the former being the first, most recognizable and most used Fire Emblem Lord and the latter being the accumulative representative for the Game & Watch era, they're still not as 'must have' as The No-Brainers. I've decided to cluster these four together as the next-most-in-demand after The No-Brainers due to the fact that all four have completely original movesets and fighting styles; the only way they could be eliminated is if they had their moves replaced, like Ness has with Lucas. (Up until Lucas' special moves were revealed, I considered Ness to be in this category as well.)
Falco Lombardi, Young Link: The "Give-or-Takers." This is where things really turn gray. Falco and Young Link are both popular amongst Smash, Star Fox and Zelda fans alike, and due to recent installments in their respective series', can have new movesets made up for them. But are they really worth bringing back? Ingenuity says yes, but ingenuity can only take you so far when the final word always comes from the mouth of Masahiro Sakurai. (IMO, Young Link is actually somewhere between Falco and the Have a Chancers, but I didn't feel like making two separate categories for the Give-Or-Takers.)
Ness, Pichu, Dr. Mario, Roy: The "No-Hopers." You've heard the arguments before: Ness has had most of his special moves ganked by Lucas. Pichu was just a joke character. Dr. Mario was only put in for his music. Roy was meant to advertise FE6 and has been pretty much replaced by Ike. While there's still always the possibility they can come back, this lot does not stand much of a fighting chance. If Ness were to be given different moves from Lucas, why change him at all? Why not give Lucas the different moves? Dr. Mario has nothing to draw from except throwing Megavitamins and doesn't have the action-packed background that Fox, Captain Falcon and all them have; the shortage of moves is always the downfall of Puzzle Game stars. Ike is essentially what Roy would have been with a unique moveset.
Pichu stands alone as the one of this group that may come back; his moves can be changed, since there's no shortage to draw from in the world of Pokémon, but does the franchise really need him? We already know Pikachu and Pokémon Trainer are in Brawl, while Mewtwo and Jigglypuff have a good shot at returning. Not to mention his most popular costume, the aviator goggles, have been given to Pikachu...
That's my breakdown. Whadday'all think?
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Post by Captain Walrus on Nov 23, 2007 0:51:18 GMT -5
I think that sums it up pretty accurately.
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Post by Da Robot on Nov 23, 2007 4:22:39 GMT -5
ON TOPIC: Saki is another sword fighter as an Assist Trophy. However, his Cannon Sword is a combination of a lightsaber (called the Night Stick, which isn't an ordinary sword made of metal) and a blaster (called the G&R-M64-JPC DOLPHIN POLICE STANDARD GUN (or simply the Dolphin Gun)). Dolphin Gun? Could that not be a reference to that "Dolphin" in joke that was in the late N64-early GCN era? |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Nov 23, 2007 6:08:54 GMT -5
Tei, you are outdoing yourself with these posts! You summarise my opinions more or less accurately... however I still believe if we do get clone characters again, Ness's chances shoot straight up the list, as will Young Link's.
But that's dependent on an unknown. Given what we know now, your list is spot on.
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Post by Manspeed on Nov 23, 2007 9:57:56 GMT -5
Well, Ness would be more of a half-clone than Luigi, since his Special Moves would be the only thing similar to Lucas, and even then it's possible to give the moves different names and effects even though they operate the same way.
Standard: PK Flash
This would be the same as it was in Melee, though it's not exactly clear to us as to whether or not Lucas's PK Freeze controls the same way. If it does, than this could be a non freezing version of it that causes other "strange" effects, like falling asleep or putting a flower on the player's head.
Side: PK Paralysis
I've settled on this because it could be a electric based version of PK Fire. Ness would shoot out the same tiny lightning bolt, except it would engulf the player in the same kind of paralyzing electricity as Pikachu's attacks. Also, like in Melee, Ness would shoot it down at an angle in midair instead of across in order to further separate it from Lucas.
Up: PK Teleport
This would be almost the same as PK Thunder, except it wouldn't cause any damage except for the initial explosion, and Ness would briefly disappear for a moment for the cool factor. Partially inspired by Ness's entrance in SSB.
Down: PSI Shield
Since Lucas's PK Magnet does not cover him completely, Ness would have a shield that does. To balance things out, it wouldn't restore health upon absorbing projectiles, hence PSI Shield.
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 23, 2007 9:59:38 GMT -5
Not bad.
The problem I have is everyone over emphasises Y. Link and Under emphasises Falco. Even you did it. What on earth make Y. Link more likely then Falco, or likely at all. He fits the bill of clone becuase there wasn't much to justify his entry. If there were never clones, he'd probably never have a chance. We would have seen Ganondorf and Falco eventually. Not only that, but Pit pretty much steals his style. He's a fast sword wielding character that has problems getting K.O.s. Falco and Ganondorf are at least popular amongst their franchise. I'm not sure Zelda fans are eagerly awaiting Y. Link to be shown.
But the thing is I have never heard a sound argument on why he should be in.
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 23, 2007 10:50:28 GMT -5
Not bad. The problem I have is everyone over emphasises Y. Link and Under emphasises Falco. Even you did it. What on earth make Y. Link more likely then Falco, or likely at all. He fits the bill of clone becuase there wasn't much to justify his entry. If there were never clones, he'd probably never have a chance. We would have seen Ganondorf and Falco eventually. Not only that, but Pit pretty much steals his style. He's a fast sword wielding character that has problems getting K.O.s. Falco and Ganondorf are at least popular amongst their franchise. I'm not sure Zelda fans are eagerly awaiting Y. Link to be shown. But the thing is I have never heard a sound argument on why he should be in. You haven't? How about the fact that Y. Link would be a completely different character, and Falco really wouldn't (sorry TEi, but you know deep down that's the truth). Y. Link has been in more Zelda games than adult Link (as said by Parrothead) and now that games like Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass have been released, Y. Link has a whole different arsenal that OOT Link or TP Link. |
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Nov 23, 2007 10:54:24 GMT -5
They can throw in Wind Waker Link if I can have my Paper Mario.
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Post by Manspeed on Nov 23, 2007 13:58:04 GMT -5
That's a horrible trade-off. There's only one Mario, and the paper thing was just a visual gag. What would he gave that Mario doesn't aside from a hammer and a Mr.GW level of wacky appearance?
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Nov 23, 2007 15:29:31 GMT -5
That's my point, the same damn thing can be said about Wind Waker Link. He just looks different and has a few different tools but that's it. It's still Link. There won't be a cel-shaded second Link unless there's a second Mario aswell since Mario's, you know, Nintendo's friggen mascot. And that whole 'the younger Link was there first' reason is bullhobo because this Link right here is the style they're going with now, a Link that happens to be older. That's like suggesting a playable Samus with small shoulder pads based on the first Metroid aside from the one we got based on Prime. e: Alright that's a shitty analogy I know it's the same Samus and that CelLink supposed to be different and I know he was popular on Sakurai's list and that being popular only really counts so I'm going to save myself and say this is my opinion  |
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 23, 2007 16:19:35 GMT -5
Not bad. The problem I have is everyone over emphasises Y. Link and Under emphasises Falco. Even you did it. What on earth make Y. Link more likely then Falco, or likely at all. He fits the bill of clone becuase there wasn't much to justify his entry. If there were never clones, he'd probably never have a chance. We would have seen Ganondorf and Falco eventually. Not only that, but Pit pretty much steals his style. He's a fast sword wielding character that has problems getting K.O.s. Falco and Ganondorf are at least popular amongst their franchise. I'm not sure Zelda fans are eagerly awaiting Y. Link to be shown. But the thing is I have never heard a sound argument on why he should be in. You haven't? How about the fact that Y. Link would be a completely different character, and Falco really wouldn't (sorry TEi, but you know deep down that's the truth). Y. Link has been in more Zelda games than adult Link (as said by Parrothead) and now that games like Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass have been released, Y. Link has a whole different arsenal that OOT Link or TP Link. Falco as a clone was more different (is that how you say it?) then Y. Link as a clone. Sure, he can be different, but that's not always the best argument. Dr. Mario can be different too, but it doesn't mean he should be playable. It's also Melee that makes the difference. There haven't been more games with Y. Link then Link. They were Link. The reason people give for why he is likely are off. Those are more reasons why he can be a playable character, but not why he's better then any other. Falco is a much more important character, and much more popular too. He is second only to Fox himself. He was added on the grounds that Starfox is popular. He could have his own moveset. Y. Link was added becuase he's great clone material. He's is no different then Link in any way (heck, he IS Link), and isn't any more popular then Falco. The reason are never sound. But, he is one of those joke characters that people here latched onto after reading the poll. Tom Nook and WW Link are the same in that I didn't hear anything about them until the poll was shown. I'm not kidding you. The only reason people think they make any sense is that they were on the poll. Y. Link just got on there more becuase he was in Melee. |
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Post by rukifellth on Nov 23, 2007 16:22:16 GMT -5
Just came to think of it. With Treasure's involvement. Is there a possibility that other Treasure characters might appear? Gunstar Heroes anyone?
I NEVER DIE!!
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