Update #160: Saki Amamiya

[thores]

trustthefungus said:

I'm with Smashchu on this. Two Links when Tingle and Vaati aren't in?

There is only one Ganondorf. It's been stated in the games themselves.

Uh...FSA?

Ganon and Ganondorf are one and the same. He's called Ganon when in his pig form, and Ganondorf when in his humanoid form.

Except he's called Ganon even when in human form. I don't remember him being called Ganondorf in pig form ever, but I could be mistaken.

That's because his pig form is his true form. So sometimes people call him Ganon regardless because that's his "real" name. But there has never been an occasion where he's been in human form and not called himself Ganondorf.

[Game Guru]

sgtmajorkururu said:

Personally, I see returning Melee fighters coming back with the following chances:

Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Luigi: The "No-Brainers." The Legend of Zelda has few consistent characters that appear across generations--and I don't mean that like how Tetra is in WW and PH. I'm thinking more of a Tingle factor, where he's been in MM (the OoT generation), WW and Four Swords Adventures. And to an extent, Twilight Princess, since the guy in Hyrule Castle Town that runs the STAR game was confirmed to be a realistic version of Tingle by Aonuma. As such, Ganondorf is the only character who has really been consistant aside from Link and Zelda, so it makes sense for him to come back.

Captain Falcon, meanwhile, is the main character for F-Zero, and his moveset represents the series: fast and high-powered. Since F-Zero still has an icon and a conceivable choice for a character, it's unlikely he's gone, either.

And Luigi...really, do I need to explain this? I think everyone sees where I'm going here.

Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Jigglypuff: The "Have A Chancers." While Marth and Game & Watch stand out due to the former being the first, most recognizable and most used Fire Emblem Lord and the latter being the accumulative representative for the Game & Watch era, they're still not as 'must have' as The No-Brainers. I've decided to cluster these four together as the next-most-in-demand after The No-Brainers due to the fact that all four have completely original movesets and fighting styles; the only way they could be eliminated is if they had their moves replaced, like Ness has with Lucas. (Up until Lucas' special moves were revealed, I considered Ness to be in this category as well.)

Falco Lombardi, Young Link: The "Give-or-Takers." This is where things really turn gray. Falco and Young Link are both popular amongst Smash, Star Fox and Zelda fans alike, and due to recent installments in their respective series', can have new movesets made up for them. But are they really worth bringing back? Ingenuity says yes, but ingenuity can only take you so far when the final word always comes from the mouth of Masahiro Sakurai. (IMO, Young Link is actually somewhere between Falco and the Have a Chancers, but I didn't feel like making two separate categories for the Give-Or-Takers.)

Ness, Pichu, Dr. Mario, Roy: The "No-Hopers." You've heard the arguments before: Ness has had most of his special moves ganked by Lucas. Pichu was just a joke character. Dr. Mario was only put in for his music. Roy was meant to advertise FE6 and has been pretty much replaced by Ike. While there's still always the possibility they can come back, this lot does not stand much of a fighting chance. If Ness were to be given different moves from Lucas, why change him at all? Why not give Lucas the different moves? Dr. Mario has nothing to draw from except throwing Megavitamins and doesn't have the action-packed background that Fox, Captain Falcon and all them have; the shortage of moves is always the downfall of Puzzle Game stars. Ike is essentially what Roy would have been with a unique moveset.

Pichu stands alone as the one of this group that may come back; his moves can be changed, since there's no shortage to draw from in the world of Pokémon, but does the franchise really need him? We already know Pikachu and Pokémon Trainer are in Brawl, while Mewtwo and Jigglypuff have a good shot at returning. Not to mention his most popular costume, the aviator goggles, have been given to Pikachu...

That's my breakdown. Whadday'all think?

Actually, I personally think that Captain Falcon, Luigi, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Jigglypuff, Falco, Young Link, and Dr. Mario will return. They aren't dumping anyone with an original moveset, Falco, Ganondorf & Young Link are fan favorites (People say Tingle and Vaati are more wanted, but Tingle & Vaati come from Young Link's continuity, not Adult Link's. Tingle and Vaati would have to be cel-shaded, and I'd rather have their version of Link in before either). Lastly, despite what people say, Dr. Mario is more likely than Pichu, Roy, or sadly, Ness, because if he keeps his moves from Melee and has a fitting Final Smash, he would be pretty different from Mario. Other indicators are the lack of a Dr. Mario alternate outfit, and the fact that Sakurai's going to want the Dr. Mario Fever Music back in.

[8bitretroshit]

Where'd you hear about the Fever music? Also just because a DEMO didn't have alternate costumes doesn't mean they aren't in. That and if they were in I think it's more likely they will be unlockable anyway. Maybe for clearing Classic Mode on Normal/Hard with that character or whatever.

But hey, if Dr. Mario returns as seperate character we might get some crazy Dr. Mario stage so it's good either way.

[Captain Walrus]

We might get a Dr. Mario stage without Dr. Mario as a playable character. We've got Mario Circuit (based on a spin-off game of some playable characters) and Pictochat (no representative character) stages.

[thores]

samaine said:

Other indicators are... the fact that Sakurai's going to want the Dr. Mario Fever Music back in.

Thanks to My Music, I'm pretty sure he now feels okay with adding Dr. Mario without also adding a whole CHARACTER to justify it. I'm nearly positive the Doc's a goner, sorry.

[nocturnal YL]

*I'm not paying attention of what you guys talk about right now, I'm just replying to the main topic*

Gotta love it. The inclusion of a Sin and Punishment character is just great.

Now I need Issac in the game. Be it playable or AT, I want it.

And when will we ever get Falcon? And the hidden characters? Please... I want some confirmation.

[TV Eye]

trustthefungus said:

I'm with Smashchu on this. Two Links when Tingle and Vaati aren't in?

There is only one Ganondorf. It's been stated in the games themselves.

Uh...FSA?

I have never played FSA, and I don't think the majority of the people here have either.

Also, why would you want Tingle and Vaati as playable characters? Don't you think that's pushing it with Zelda characters? It's like saying, "Oh, I don't want Y Link, let's look in the dumpster..."

What can Tingle do? Draw maps? Fly a balloon? Creep you out? And Vaati isn't important enough.

[Dasher Misire]

Twilight Princess takes place in the main timeline, excuse me for intervening....

The Master Sword is returned to its rightful pedestal... which is at the ruins of the Temple of Time in forgotten woods... In Wind Waker the sword is left in Ganon and the only excuse would be if a fisherman fished out the sword that can only be pulled by the hero (lame theory). They move past Hyrule and go further into the Great Sea for Wind Waker.

The Twilight Princess' beautiful image of the sword shining in the middle of a forest is a direct reference to the art from Triforce of the Gods, Link to the Past here may have had it too, I don't know. But the sword stays there... until LttP, where it's taken from a very similar forest. More similarities include the fact we have all the familiar landmarks, and they seem to be in the right step for the later games. The only excuse for Wind Waker being the main timeline I can think of is that Ganon doesn't die.

Theories for this.... Ganon at the end of TP... I believe it could have been like Zelda.... she gave up her physical being and Triforce of Wisdom to Midna at the expense of her life.Let's consider if Ganon managed to transfer his soul into the form of the monstrous being for good, and hid in the shadows for a while? It's a meh theory but here's one more.

What if the legend from Adventure of Link was put into thought? Ganon's surviving forces either gave a violent end to the Link of Twilight Princess in an unknown area or found the first Link's body in a graveyard and scraped up any blood they could find... and sprinkle it on Ganon's corpse? He'd come back to life.... It's just a thought.

[thores]

That was a nice post and everything, but TP being in the Majora's Mask timeline isn't just a theory. It's been confirmed by an official source. Aunoma himself said that this was the case in an interview. Hold on a second while I go find it.

EDIT: Here's the original interview in Japanese. Here's the relevant portion of the translated text.

[Smashchu]

tveye said:

The whole point I am trying to make, is that he shouldn't take the place of a character, but have both said characters appear. I don't think anyone is taking anyones place. It's a game, and Sakurai isn't going to say, "We need exactly [X amount] of characters, so let's get rid of [X] in favor of [X]." That doesn't really make sense if you think about it. The fans want a variety of characters, and what the fans want, the fans should get. We are the consumer, we give them the dirty money that they rightfully deserve for listening to us.

My argument was saying that I beleive Y. Link is not important enough to warrant a return, and not more important then Falco. If Falco stays, I'll be fine. He's just one of the characters I really want back.

But, also, look at how this topic turned

Saki
>
LOL Trophy is sword. Do Not Want
>
HOLY Crap, it's a dude
>
Disscusion of 1st/2nd/3rd parties
>
Treasure rules
>
Wario World
>
Fighting with Body vs Sword
>
Discussion on who is more likely to be in Brawl
>
Y. Link argument
>
Zelda timeline discussion

[Flip]

Vaati could be potentially awesome, but I still can't see any logical, and non-wasteful, Zelda characters to add. Maybe Young Link, fine, we can argue that. But otherwise? Even Midna's better off as an AT

...though, humanoid Midna was kind of a babe. Wouldn't mind that as a Zelda clone...

[TrustTheFungus]

tveye said:

I have never played FSA, and I don't think the majority of the people here have either.

But you said the games stated there is only one Ganon, when they state the exact opposite.

Also, why would you want Tingle and Vaati as playable characters? Don't you think that's pushing it with Zelda characters? It's like saying, "Oh, I don't want Y Link, let's look in the dumpster..."

What can Tingle do? Draw maps? Fly a balloon? Creep you out? And Vaati isn't important enough.

Tingle,who has been in almost every Zelda game since MM and has starred in TWO games, and Vaati, an important villain in half the Zelda games since 2002(Not counting Tingle's games), are looking in a dumpster, but Link 2 isn't?

I guess you're right. There's nothing Tingle could do. Tingle/Nitro Bombs couldn't be used to attack. (Super)Knock-Out Gas couldn't be used to stun opponents. Neither could Endless/One Love. (Super/Mega)Ting couldn't be some sort of healing move. Wallmaster Brew couldn't possibly be a third-jump or tether grab. Obviously Sakurai wouldn't do something weird invovling Tingle's Dust Cloud fighting, Balloons, Rupees, or Tingle Fireworks. Nope. No good moves at all.

[Johans Nidorino]

tveye said:

Also, why would you want Tingle and Vaati as playable characters? Don't you think that's pushing it with Zelda characters? It's like saying, "Oh, I don't want Y Link, let's look in the dumpster..."

What can Tingle do? Draw maps? Fly a balloon? Creep you out? And Vaati isn't important enough.

Including Vaati would be pushing it if he doesn't come from the same game the chosen Link comes from.

Tingle, that's not pushing it. He's becoming a spin-off and he could appear with a Rupee icon instead of a Triforce. However, there's that trophy in the screenshots.

[Snuka7]

A lot of people have been saying that Geno should be in and Midna should not. Geno has only been in one game too. And I think Midna and Geno would be great. Midna could even transform into her human like thing.

[Smashchu]

snuka7 said:

A lot of people have been saying that Geno should be in and Midna should not. Geno has only been in one game too. And I think Midna and Geno would be great. Midna could even transform into her human like thing.

I don't see Minda happening. After WW, everyone wanted Tetra. After TP, Tetra died and everyone wanted Minda. It's a vicious cycle. The Zelda games throw away characters just to make another to take it's place.