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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Nov 24, 2007 21:58:09 GMT -5
I feel TEi made a very important point that has been largely ignored - there are currently TWO very distinct directions in which the Zelda series has moved - the realistic style Link of Twilight Princess / Crowsbow Training that pretty much comes from the OoT / MM side of things, and the new, quirky style of tWW, PH, Minish Cap, etc. And I definitely feel these both need to be represented, particularly with the Japanese audiences not warming to TP, but having done so with PH.
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 24, 2007 22:01:59 GMT -5
I feel TEi made a very important point that has been largely ignored - there are currently TWO very distinct directions in which the Zelda series has moved - the realistic style Link of Twilight Princess / Crowsbow Training that pretty much comes from the OoT / MM side of things, and the new, quirky style of tWW, PH, Minish Cap, etc. And I definitely feel these both need to be represented, particularly with the Japanese audiences not warming to TP, but having done so with PH. Well, they didn't warm up to WW. They only liked it becuase it was DS. But the Link thing is just a design issue. And even if we represent the games, a characters would be a bit much. A course would do swimmingly, and be great fun, but a character just to represent a style would be much. |
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Nov 24, 2007 22:43:45 GMT -5
I don't see Minda happening. After WW, everyone wanted Tetra. After TP, Tetra died and everyone wanted Minda. It's a vicious cycle. The Zelda games throw away characters just to make another to take it's place. Midna = the Sheik of Twilight Princess. I don't understand how you don't deem TWW representable and yet you compare Midna to Tetra, when TP is clearly in Brawl. There deserves to be a TLoZ thread because the topic always invades other threads. |
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 24, 2007 23:09:29 GMT -5
I don't see Minda happening. After WW, everyone wanted Tetra. After TP, Tetra died and everyone wanted Minda. It's a vicious cycle. The Zelda games throw away characters just to make another to take it's place. Midna = the Sheik of Twilight Princess. I don't understand how you don't deem TWW representable and yet you compare Midna to Tetra, when TP is clearly in Brawl. Look at the context.Their similar as they are the X character of that game. They (almost) always have Link, Zelda Ganon/Ganondorf and the X character. People seem to flock to this character and want it for Smash, but once the next game comes, they throw the old X character to the side and want the new one. |
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Post by TrustTheFungus on Nov 25, 2007 0:55:34 GMT -5
Including Vaati would be pushing it if he doesn't come from the same game the chosen Link comes from. Tingle, that's not pushing it. He's becoming a spin-off and he could appear with a Rupee icon instead of a Triforce. However, there's that trophy in the screenshots. I've been thinking about it, and you're probably right. Young Human Vaati with adult Link and Zelda wouldn't work well. So I think I'd be ok with Y. Link ahead of him. Now a Big Eye Wind Mage Vaati as boss in SSE would be pretty darn awesome. |
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Post by parrothead on Nov 25, 2007 1:55:35 GMT -5
Adult Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are perhaps all the playable Zelda characters needed for SSBB. Why? Because each character holds a part of the Triforce. Link has the Triforce of Courage, Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom and Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power.
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 25, 2007 9:44:24 GMT -5
Adult Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are perhaps all the playable Zelda characters needed for SSBB. Why? Because each character holds a part of the Triforce. Link has the Triforce of Courage, Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom and Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power. That was what I thought would always be best. Snag the most important characters. |
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 25, 2007 12:11:44 GMT -5
Adult Link, Zelda and Ganondorf are perhaps all the playable Zelda characters needed for SSBB. Why? Because each character holds a part of the Triforce. Link has the Triforce of Courage, Zelda has the Triforce of Wisdom and Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power. That was what I thought would always be best. Snag the most important characters. Well then why should Jigglypuff be a character? Or Zero Suit Samus? Or Pichu or Dr. Mario...the list goes on... |
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Post by Smashchu on Nov 25, 2007 12:45:44 GMT -5
That was what I thought would always be best. Snag the most important characters. Well then why should Jigglypuff be a character? Or Zero Suit Samus? Or Pichu or Dr. Mario...the list goes on... Jigglypuff is a popular Pokemon ZSS is Samus without her suit so at the very least it's an extra addition The other two are probably gone. |
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 25, 2007 13:03:03 GMT -5
Well then why should Jigglypuff be a character? Or Zero Suit Samus? Or Pichu or Dr. Mario...the list goes on... Jigglypuff is a popular Pokemon ZSS is Samus without her suit so at the very least it's an extra addition The other two are probably gone. Well, I listed those characters because you said "important". Popularity has nothing to do with importance. Jigglypuff (as far as I'm aware) isn't even on the show anymore, Pichu has little to no importance, and neither did Dr. Mario. I am also skeptical about WW/Young Link, but I like to keep this debate going in hopes someone could help increase, or decrease my feelings for him as a character. Sorry Smash, but it's increasing. |
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Post by Dasher Misire on Nov 25, 2007 14:41:33 GMT -5
Why, none of you quote ME. =P
The Hero of the Winds would be nice, or the Hero of the Four Sword. The adult Links usually combine their game and... in the case of 64 and Brawl, some of the original. Link appears from a Recorded cyclone I believe here, and the original had those cyclones on the castle. But yeah, young Link would represent the other games.But we'll just have to wait and see, right now other game series aren't getting treatment they deserve after 2 games of starring (F-Zero.. Mother 2 needs some love as well but let's not get into that) and we really don't need any more Mario or Zelda characters beyond Mario Bros, Peach and Bowser and Link, Zelda, Ganon. Young Link is not required.
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Post by TV Eye on Nov 25, 2007 15:00:16 GMT -5
Why, none of you quote ME. =P The Hero of the Winds would be nice, or the Hero of the Four Sword. The adult Links usually combine their game and... in the case of 64 and Brawl, some of the original. Link appears from a Recorded cyclone I believe here, and the original had those cyclones on the castle. But yeah, young Link would represent the other games.But we'll just have to wait and see, right now other game series aren't getting treatment they deserve after 2 games of starring (F-Zero.. Mother 2 needs some love as well but let's not get into that) and we really don't need any more Mario or Zelda characters beyond Mario Bros, Peach and Bowser and Link, Zelda, Ganon. Young Link is not required. In the first game, Link didn't appear from a cyclone, but from a beam of light. Also... Mario = Link Bowser = Ganondorf Peach = Zelda Luigi = Y Link My thoughts on your post. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2007 17:46:16 GMT -5
I feel TEi made a very important point that has been largely ignored - there are currently TWO very distinct directions in which the Zelda series has moved - the realistic style Link of Twilight Princess / Crowsbow Training that pretty much comes from the OoT / MM side of things, and the new, quirky style of tWW, PH, Minish Cap, etc. And I definitely feel these both need to be represented, particularly with the Japanese audiences not warming to TP, but having done so with PH.
The thing skeptics should keep in mind is that, by the time Melee was out, we had only heard an inkling of what was to come in the way of console Zelda. We may have seen a few screenshots, if nothing else. We were still largely rooted in the Ocarina of Time era. So of course, Sakurai needed some clones to fill in the Melee roster a bit, and of the six, only three stood out as their own characters: Ganondorf, Falco and Roy. Back in 2001, Wind Waker was barely even starting to eke out drama amongst Zelda-faithful in its bright-coloryness.
Flash forward to November 2007. The GameCube was released almost six years ago at this point, and Zelda has very much evolved since that time. We've had four true Zelda games between Melee and now, plus a variety of spin-offs and ports. The amazing part about that is that the majority of all those Zelda games--even just the "true" ones--have been done in Wind Waker style. We've had Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Twilight Princess; factor in Link's Crossbow Training, Four Swords Adventures and the LttP/FSA port, that's seven games. Only two have been done in the TP style--TP itself and LCT--whereas four have been done directly in the WW style (WW, MC, PH and FSA). LttP is neutral on the whole issue, but the majority should speak loud enough anyway.
Zelda is not what it used to be. Granted, it's still "Link goes to city, goes to dungeon, beats boss, gets Important Item A, returns to city," etc. etc., but stylistically it has evolved, and for the most part it tries to do new things. Twilight Princess? Very traditional Zelda. There's nothing wrong with that, of course! I love traditional Zelda. But I love it more when Zelda tries to make things fresh, and Wind Waker-styled stuff always goes above and beyond to make that happen. Is this strictly something related to how WW looks? No way. It just happens that the innovation finds a home with the WW-styled stuff. And granted, it started pretty small--a few new items here, some different boss types there--but now we're at Phantom Hourglass and while I still feel like I'm playing Zelda, I also feel like I'm playing more than Zelda.
Adult/TP Link, to me, represents that traditional side. I'm grateful he's along for the ride in Brawl. But Young/WW Link also represents Nintendo's innovation with the franchise; as things get greater and greater with each new cel-shaded/styled Zelda they release I can't help but thinking that a couple games down the road and they'll release something truly revolutionary. This is the different path I was talking about before, and it's lent itself to making both versions of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf to becoming their own characters.
While I hardly expect to see Tetra or Fatty-Ganondorf playable (even though I love them to bits, moreso than TP Zelda and Ganondorf), Pirate Link has the advantage of already having a foothold--Young Link in Melee. This combined with the Cel-Shaded version of Link representing the different path Zelda games have been taking is what really makes me think he could and should be back. Saying otherwise in the face of that is like saying Krystal or Ike shouldn't be in Brawl just because they're new and they could replace Falco or Roy. Krystal and Ike represent Star Fox and Fire Emblem where they stand now; excluding them would be like denying the current state of their franchises. And I know I'm hardly one to talk--I pretend Krystal doesn't exist as often as I can--but I still expect Sakurai to do what's right by the franchises he's working with.
It's not about completing the Triforce. It's about representing the Zelda franchise as a whole. The Triforce and those who hold it are only part of that whole, you know? |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Nov 25, 2007 17:52:57 GMT -5
*clap* *clap* *clap*
Well said.
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Nov 25, 2007 18:54:10 GMT -5
That doesn't lack numerical meaning, but it's more like Dr. Mario = Young Link if you must compare the Mario sub-roster to the Zelda sub-roster. |
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