|
|
Post by Arcadenik on Dec 15, 2007 10:10:24 GMT -5
Kirby is cute. And he's strong. And he's in. Your point being?
|
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Dec 15, 2007 10:31:39 GMT -5
...Do you remember what your point was? That Stafy being attackable means people won't buy his games? Apparently not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arcadenik on Dec 15, 2007 10:39:33 GMT -5
And being cute doesn't mean the character can't be playable.
|
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Dec 15, 2007 10:41:14 GMT -5
...What the hell does that have to do with anything?
|
|
|
|
Post by Arcadenik on Dec 15, 2007 10:55:49 GMT -5
Exactly. So, if it's okay for people to think that about Mew, surely it doesn't matter what they think of Stafy. To be honest, anyone who thinks his games are bad because of this wasn't going to buy it anyway. After all, it is a cutesy game about a star. How can something that cute be strong!? And things that aren't strong must be bad!! The last three sentences. The first sentence says Stafy's games are cutesy. The second sentence says cute and strong don't come together. The third sentence says being weak is bad. So Stafy is a cute and weak star and so therefore he must be bad enough to be a weak AT instead of bad enough to be the new Pichu of Brawl. |
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Dec 15, 2007 10:58:56 GMT -5
Oh, sorry. I've edited the post especially for you.  |
|
|
|
Post by Arcadenik on Dec 15, 2007 11:02:01 GMT -5
Cute, kirbychu, very cute.  |
|
|
|
Post by Johans Nidorino on Dec 15, 2007 11:04:31 GMT -5
I agree that Sakurai has put a lot of subjectivity into this. But there could be reasons (good or bad) other than being or not fanatic of certain character.
|
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Dec 15, 2007 11:05:02 GMT -5
Heh, I was worried you'd take that more seriously than I'd meant it. Nice to see you didn't. Seriously, I was hoping Stafy would be playable. He seemed the obvious choice. But I'm not upset he wasn't, I'm not upset that he's being used for comedy (his own games were fairly comedic anyway) and I don't think this would hurt sales of any future Stafy games. |
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Dec 15, 2007 11:28:58 GMT -5
People, you are acting as fanboyist as you blame Sakurai to be. You have to remember that he works with a full team that not only know Melee down to perfection but he also ask every single designer, musician and director on how they want their creations to be treated. If for some reason all this decisions that for sure include important people like Miyamoto, Iwata, Totaka and even Kojima doesn't match with your own likes well, tough luck, the game is designed for the masses and those masses don't know who or where Stafy comes from. Sure he can throw a self decided bone once in a while, he IS the game director after all, but to expect every single Nintendo character as playable or down from there is not realistic. I think you nailed it right there. But, Arcadenik, you must remember that not every character you want for Brawl is going to make it. He can only program so many characters, so there has to be a line. Just becuase a character you want in the game didn't make it doesn't mean Sakurai is doing a bad job. The game isn't "Super Smash Bros Brawl: Arcadenik addition". Smash appeals to everyone, so some characters just can't be in. Starfy's problem was moves. He has some moves, but unlike Kirby, he didn't have a heck of a lot. You could make a moveset for him, but why for a Japan-only character, and only who wasn't a break away hit to begin with. It does show Sakurai is staying true to his word about less Japan-only stuff. We still get some as Assist, but only one is a playable character. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2007 20:04:51 GMT -5
Jesus. You wanna know what I see when I look at this topic?
I'm gonna build off a point Arcadenik brought up on Page 3--how Ice Climbers and Game & Watch wouldn't have a huge fanbase if they hadn't been in Melee. I think, despite his otherwise skewed perspective, the boy had the right idea here...neither IC nor G&W would even be remotely as desired if they hadn't been in Melee. So the way I'm thinking is that, while we're getting similar treatment from Brawl's playable characters (Lucas and Ike are prime examples), it's not just stopping there.
In the first two SSB games, all we really had in the way of direct Nintendo character cameos were the Pokéball Pokémon, and the Mario, Zelda and Ice Climber baddies from Melee. But Brawl introduced Assist Trophies, which increases the cameo count exponentially; it will raise awareness of the games these characters come from, and in some events, give them a much larger fan-following than what they had before.
Sure, Stafy didn't get in as a playable character...but neither did Goroh, Lyn, Saki, Little Mac, Gray Fox, and undoubtedly many more that are yet to come. But like IC and G&W, people who didn't know much about Densetsu no Stafy, or F-Zero, or Sin and Punishment, will now suddenly have something to cause them to look further into these games. With a lot of high-demand characters already in the role of playability, Nintendo will either need to reach deeper into its roster of franchises, or start to branch outward into third parties. Both are logical steps, and it feels as if those that are Assist Trophies now that should be playable will gain the momentum and fanbase necessary to earn them playable status.
I have no doubt that Goroh and Saki will be playable in SSB4, especially now that they're being "advertised" in Brawl. I'd go so far as to say Little Mac and Stafy would follow suit, too. Most of you are looking at Assist Trophies as a wholly negative thing, and the rest of you see it as a "take what you can get" deal; underneath all that is the guage of how well people respond to these characters.
Also worth noting: if Sakurai hated Stafy, the chances are the character wouldn't have even been an Assist Trophy. Just something for all you pessimists to choke chew on.
|
|
|
|
Post by Smashchu on Dec 15, 2007 20:47:56 GMT -5
I'm gonna build off a point Arcadenik brought up on Page 3--how Ice Climbers and Game & Watch wouldn't have a huge fanbase if they hadn't been in Melee. I think, despite his otherwise skewed perspective, the boy had the right idea here...neither IC nor G&W would even be remotely as desired if they hadn't been in Melee. So the way I'm thinking is that, while we're getting similar treatment from Brawl's playable characters (Lucas and Ike are prime examples), it's not just stopping there. Lucas, maybe. But even then we knew he was going to be in and replace Ness. Ike on the other hand actually had popularity. He was the first lord top be popular world wide. He also scored a 4 on the poll As of now, all the characters who were on the poll who are also assist trophies got a 1. Not a single 2 has become an AT. So popularity is part of the reason Sakurai is adding certain characters as AT. Lyn didn't stand a chance to begin with, and there wasn't much want for another F-Zero character (even now, Black Shadow isn't near as popular as other characters). Starfy wasn't very popular, and was a dieing franchise. The first two sold Ok and broke 400K, but the 3rd sold about 200K and the fourth sold less then 100K. Starfy was on a downhill slope. Not to mention he was limited in terms of moves. Sure, you could make some specials, but there wasn't to much to draw on. Sakurai has his reasons. A lot of characters, like Saki for example, are cut since the roster can't be that big. In the end, the characters who stand the best chance of getting in are Krystal, Ridley, Olimar, Takamaru, Geno and perhaps Megaman (but I'm lossing faith in that one). But then we get to the ICs and Game & Watch. They were not popular, but where were they added. This is the same case with PT, but a little different. ICs are the Famicon rep. They were chosen between Bubbles (lack of fight ability) Excitebiker (no jumps) Balloon Fighter (Balloons wouldn't work) and Urban Champion. Sakurai chose them due to fightability and that there wasn't much else. Game & Watch was to give Gupie Youko (spelling?) his due. The Game & Watch line was very important to Nintendo's history, and was one that received reconnection in many Nintendo games. Sakurai isn't some mystery master mind. There is a reason he adds everything. Starfy wasn't that deserving. Really, it was a character that many people thought was important, but after looking though the sale, that is not the case. Not to mention he wasn't even on the poll. Chances are he wasn't even suggested. If he was truly popular, he had to be mentioned on the poll at least once. If you truly want to know who has a shot, look at the poll, the game's sales, and the Melee poll and site. Those have really been the best sources to draw Sakurai's logic. |
|
|
|
Post by Flip on Dec 15, 2007 22:06:40 GMT -5
King Dedede(5) - CONFIRMED!
Diddy Kong(4) - CONFIRMED!
Geno(4)
Ike(4) - CONFIRMED!
Ridley(4)
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3)
Krystal(3)
Takamaru(3)
Windwaker Link(3)
Animal Crossing MC(2)
Claus(2)
Demiru(2)
Isaac(2)
Jeff(2)
Kawasima(2)
King K.Rool(2)
Lip(2)
Lucas(2) - CONFIRMED!
Mega Man(2)
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2)
Sukapon(2)
Jus' sayin'...
|
|
|
|
Post by Sqrt2 on Dec 16, 2007 13:48:50 GMT -5
King Dedede(5) - CONFIRMED!
Diddy Kong(4) - CONFIRMED!
Geno(4)
Ike(4) - CONFIRMED!
Ridley(4)
Captain Olimar & Pikmin(3)
Krystal(3)
Takamaru(3)
Windwaker Link(3)
Animal Crossing MC(2)
Claus(2)
Demiru(2)
Isaac(2)
Jeff(2)
Kawasima(2)
King K.Rool(2)
Lip(2)
Lucas(2) - CONFIRMED!
Mega Man(2)
Oguma(2)
Ouendan(2)
Sukapon(2)Jus' sayin'... Just curious, (And I just know someone is going to bite my head off for this) who are Claus, Oguma and Kawasima? |
|
|
|
Post by The Qu on Dec 16, 2007 14:00:29 GMT -5
Claus is a character in Mother . He's Lucas' brother and an antagonist throughout the game. Not much else can be said without spoilers. Colour me confused on Demiru, Oguma and Kawisma tho.
|
|
