|
|
Post by Nester the Lark on Sept 9, 2009 20:49:37 GMT -5
And how the hell am I trolling? I'm defending what I said while simultaneously voicing something that had been on my mind for a while. Kirb and I have gotten into way too many arguments on this subject for me to just stand here and act like nothing happened again. Man-Frog, you and kirbychu have gotten into way too many arguments on this subject matter for you to know that getting into another one is in no way a good idea. If you guys can't have a civil discussion, then DON'T POST! |
|
|
|
Post by Wildcat on Sept 9, 2009 20:50:35 GMT -5
You'll notice I didn't say that you said he was wrong. (emphasis added) What I said you were doing was belittling him. Look, just let it go, man. If one of you two really need to tear into each other, please do it somewhere else. It's obvious that Sonic is a passionate subject between the two of you, but the majority of us don't care to see you two duke it out every time the word "Sonic" is mentioned. This isn't the right thread for such a thing, for one. Nester merely posted a news bit on a new game. Kirb says he's not interested, but his (mildly) snide comment at the end wasn't really an invite for you to start a battle. You crossed the line (the  smilie doesn't erase it) by purposely trying to push his buttons. Which is trolling. And that's why I asked you (nicely) to knock it off. |
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Sept 10, 2009 3:08:25 GMT -5
And how the hell am I trolling? I'm defending what I said while simultaneously voicing something that had been on my mind for a while. Kirb and I have gotten into way too many arguments on this subject for me to just stand here and act like nothing happened again. You are trolling, Man-Frog, because all I had said in the first place was that it didn't interest me, but it would probably interest everyone else. Then you popped out of the woodwork to attack my opinion by telling me that I'm wrong for not conforming. Then I defended my opinion, and you continue to attack it. When I said that was a wrong opinion, I was talking about the opinion that everything that was introduced after 1994 is automatically bad for not having been introduced before 1994. I'm not going to bother responding to the rest of your extremely long post, suffice to say that I disagree with most of it. I have my own opinion, stop trying to force me to share yours. EDIT: Actually, I am going to respond to this part. Sorry everyone, but it'll bug me if I don't say it. And even if it does all boil down to opinion in the end, YOU'RE just as bad as the rest of them. You always act like you're somehow better than every other Sonic fan just because you're willing to accept any schlock that Sonic Team will throw at us and not be peeved in the slightest. It almost feels like you're trying too hard to appear different from all those other Sonic fans out there, whichever category they fall into. Now tell me, who's the REAL fanboy around here? I never said any of that, did I? In fact, I complained about Shadow the Hedgehog in the last post I made. And I HATE Sonic 2006. If I weren't such a whore for achievements, I wouldn't have bothered playing it. I've had it for years and only have about five achievements, but I go back to it because I hate having missing achievements in my list. I didn't like Secret Rings, Black Knight or Zero Gravity all that much, either. And I'm fairly certain that you're well aware of my stance on Chronicles. I never said all Sonic games were amazing. I don't think there's ever been an amazing Sonic game, personally. All I said was that I'm sick of Sonic fanboys forcing their opinions onto me. And you've done a fantastic job of thoroughly proving my point. |
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Sept 10, 2009 16:51:47 GMT -5
....why am I such an idiot....?   |
|
|
|
Post by TV Eye on Sept 10, 2009 18:06:37 GMT -5
I don't think there's ever been an amazing Sonic game, personally. I don't know, in my opinion an amazing game is one you can constantly restart and play whenever. Sonic Adventure falls in this category for me. |
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Sept 10, 2009 21:18:20 GMT -5
And I should've made it clear that Sonic 1-3 (& Knuckles) is like that for me.
To explain what I said before a little bit more sensibly, most people share this sentiment, which is why the only way a new Sonic game will ever be considered good by the legions of the internet again is if it were more like the classics, whatever the reason may be for these newer games being bad.
In all honesty though, I have no faith that this new game they announced will be anything like the classics aside from being 2D. The same thing happened with Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Rush and Sonic Rivals, and Sonic Genesis was a train wreck of a port.
At this point it'll take a miracle to win me over.
|
|
|
|
Post by TV Eye on Sept 10, 2009 22:25:09 GMT -5
Actually, the most prominent problem I've heard regarding the hatred of new Sonic games is the tremendous amount of bugs, glitches, and overall poor quality.
Take Sonic Adventure DX, it had potential to be an awesome remake but there have been so many reports of the game freezing up, and various graphical errors, it became almost impossible for some people to play.
My friend bought the GBA version of Sonic 1 and told me how much of a glitchfest it was.
Sonic Rush, Sonic Advance, and even Sonic Battle have been met with lots of praise because they were...actually good. When you look at the most hated Sonic games, you'll notice they have lots of glitches.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wildcat on Sept 10, 2009 22:36:43 GMT -5
Now that the dust has settled: Turns out that some of that Project: Needlemouse hoopla was totally fake. Someone took it upon themselves to fake Green Hill-like renders and plopped them on a site called needlemouse.com, only to quickly be proclaimed as "not connected to our Project Needlemouse" by Sega's Kellie Parker. The trailer Nester posted yesterday is legit, thankfully. |
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Sept 11, 2009 1:29:23 GMT -5
In all honesty though, I have no faith that this new game they announced will be anything like the classics aside from being 2D. The same thing happened with Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Rush and Sonic Rivals, and Sonic Genesis was a train wreck of a port. But, aside from Sonic Genesis, all of those games were heavily praised. I haven't played Rivals, but I loved the other two. They were fantastic. Teev hit the nail on the head, I think. Looking at the ones I didn't like, they're all the ones that're too glitchy to enjoy. Shadow, '06 and the entire Sonic Wii library. And I think the reason I love Unleashed so much is that they actually took their time with it, and ended up with what is, as far as I can see, the most polished Sonic game that's been produced so far. The biggest problem Sonic Team have is Sega. They're constantly pressured to release the next Sonic game, very rarely given extensions on deadlines, and when they are it's generally only a couple of months. On the other hand, if Sega didn't do that, they most likely wouldn't be around any more. Sonic has been keeping them afloat when things have been particularly tough. The main product of this has been Sonic 2006, which I think has irreversibly damaged the brand. Whenever a new game comes out now, people play it with Sonic 2006 in mind, and go in looking for flaws rather than fun. That's reflected in the fact that most Unleashed reviews talked more about '06 than they did about Unleashed. |
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Sept 11, 2009 18:04:29 GMT -5
I'll admit Sonic Rush and Sonic Unleashed were of quality on a technical level. The problem for me is that I find both of those games frustrating because of the design scheme that went into them that otherwise goes against what I'm used to and loved about the older Sonic games, by which I mean a better sense of freedom and actual challenge rather than frustrating false difficulty. The fact that they've abandoned half of what made Sonic unique (his "living pinball" dynamic) isn't helping matters either. I mean, you can't even Spin Dash in Unleashed. That is some fucked up shit there. Between this kind of frustration and unfitting junk like Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 2006's storyline/asthetics and the whole Werehog bit from Unleashed getting in the way, it stands to reason that a lot of longtime Sonic fans are jaded. While I'm at it, I'll speak of some other interesting facts I picked up about the handheld Sonics. Apparently Sonic Advance was made by Dimps but by the time Sonic Advance 2 rolled around Sega said "MAKE IT FASTER" and we ended up with what I and several other found to be a shallow unfair game. This continued on until Rush and Rush Adventure. As for Sonic Rivals, apparently Backbone had it planned out as a regular Sonic game cast in Klonoa-style 3D graphics but that Izuka (sp?) guy went and said "No, make it a racing game. We need more variety. DUR" and that pretty much smashed their intent to pieces in favor of a disregarded spinoff.Things like that and attempts to sell out like the the "Storybook" series and Chronicles being made by a team of amateurs (not dissing BioWare, the game was actually made by a new handheld branch they formed just for the purpose of making the Sonic RPG) only drive the mess further. It's like a series of unfortunate coincidences or something. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Sonic franchise were cursed, given the way people act as a result of it (furries, Sonic X fanboys, that Sonic Passion place, my behavior on the previous page, etc.). |
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Sept 12, 2009 4:10:39 GMT -5
And this is where the series hits another problem. The split in the fanbase. I loved Sonic Advance 2. It's actually the only GBA Sonic game I played to 100%. Sonic Advance is the only one I never reached a credits sequence in. Because it's too slow, and I find it extremely boring. I don't need speed in a platformer, but it's what sets Sonic apart from the others. If Sonic isn't feeding the speed freak in me, I might as well be playing Mario games instead. That's the thing - I don't think there's ever been a Sonic game that even compares in quality to any of the Mario platformers. But I prefer the Sonic games just because they're so damn fast. I go back to Unleashed all the time because I get more fun out of trying to shave a few seconds off my best time while squeezing in a few more tricks than I do out of... playing Mario again. |
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Sept 12, 2009 11:20:21 GMT -5
Mario never was able to roll himself into a ball and go through half-pipes and loops and stuff, which is the other thing that set Sonic apart, speed aside. Forget a split in the fanbase, this is basically fact. When they made the decision to make Sonic a speedy character, they figured a new kind of attacking method was in order, and the idea of the character curling into a ball and rolling was their best choice. Hell, the first stage they planned and completed for Sonic 1 was Spring Yard Zone, the pinball level. If that doesn't give a ton of insight as to what Sonic was originally about from a gameplay standpoint, I don't what does. |
|
|
|
Post by TV Eye on Sept 12, 2009 12:49:57 GMT -5
Mario never was able to roll himself into a ball and go through half-pipes and loops and stuff, |
|
|
|
Post by kirbychu on Sept 12, 2009 15:06:55 GMT -5
Mario never was able to roll himself into a ball and go through half-pipes and loops and stuff, which is the other thing that set Sonic apart, speed aside. Yes, but that's boring. Ooh, cool, I can roll around on the floor. Hello, Super Monkey Ball. Pinball physics are a fun gimmick for one stage, but if you make that the gimmick for an entire game you just reach a point where you might as well just PLAY pinball. And I hate pinball. |
|
|
|
Post by Manspeed on Sept 12, 2009 17:01:32 GMT -5
Super Monkey Ball plays more like Kirby Tilt n Tumble than pinball.
And I never said I wanted every stage to be a pinball game. I'm just saying that the "roll into a ball" mechanic was just as important of a mechanic as anything else to Sonic's original formula.
There's more to it than just that: Ever notice how each stage used to have their own unique enemies and traps and gadgets on them (except the springs)?
They don't even do that anymore. Now all we have are lame-arse Egg Pawns and speed boosters all over. You can't seriously tell me that was an improvement can you?
(And for the record I LOVE me some pinball. I also find the idea of a game being just being one big Quick Time Event (as it was in Sonic Unleashed) to be excruciatingly boring.)
|
|
smilie doesn't erase it) by purposely trying to push his buttons. Which is trolling. And that's why I asked you (nicely) to knock it off.
