Smash Bros. Rumble - A NinDB Production

[Arcadenik]

Why did Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon get four characters? Could it be because they are more popular and more marketable?

Kirby got three mainly because its Sakurai's franchise, but it helps that its already popular and very marketable (the anime helps, too).

The only reason Star Fox got three was because Sakurai needed someone to bump the roster number after he was done adding all the first priority characters, and it made more sense to add Wolf instead of Krystal as a Fox clone #2 (plus true Star Fox fans hate Krystal anyway ).

[seanking64]

Yes, because you live inside Sakurai's head and know exactly what he thinks and why he did everything. (And for a hated character Krystal got really drat high on that poll way back in the beginning. Not to mention most people that hate her are just prudes, and their suffering is musical.)

By your own logic, they wouldn't let a series get that high (it's on par with Kirby, his own pet series, as you just said), if it was just for filler's sake. By your very statement, you imply that Starfox is more popular and marketable than... whatever the hell it is you're comparing it to. (Running on that same train of thought, you can then extend it to the idea that Mother is more popular and marketable than, well, take a guess what single-character series I'm about to mention. And you might have a point for popularity, but it's pretty damn clear it isn't marketable worth a damn. So what's with the discrepancy?)

[Manspeed]

Sakurai just picks what he likes. Guess he's a Star Fox fan.

[Arcadenik]

Ice Climbers were chosen to represent the Famicom era (Sakurai said this). Simple as that. Nothing about popularity and marketability but nostalgic fan service to the Japanese fans.

Mr. Game & Watch represents the Game & Watch line from the 80s and the Game & Watch Gallery series from the 90s and also serves as another nostalgic fan service.

Pit was chosen because Kid Icarus was one of the most popular (albeit unsuccessful) NES games so he is pretty much a nostalgic fan service.

R.O.B. pretty much represents Nintendo peripherals and that he was used to market the NES as a toy after the video game crash of 1983. He could be considered a nostalgic fan service as well.

What purpose does having four playable Star Fox characters characters serve besides inspiration for furry porn? Star Fox is popular and somewhat marketable, yes, but not on the same level as Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, and even Kirby. Sure, Krystal had more votes in the Brawl poll but Sakurai still wasn't planning on adding her at all and instead added Wolf (he had only one vote) after he was done adding all the first priority characters. Wolf, like Sonic, is a late addition. He's an afterthought.

Oh, thank you Frog. Sakurai probably is a Star Fox fan, so that's probably why he didn't pick Krystal as a late addition (he probably knew true Star Fox fans don't like her) and picked Wolf instead because Star Fox 64 > Star Fox Adventures.

[seanking64]

Every single character you listed before the Starfox section are one-shot no-other-character games to begin with, and thus wouldn't be able to get a new character anyway (with the possible exception of Pit, but since they made Palutena part of his final smash the option is pretty much gone anyway). What is the point of adding a fourth Starfox character? What was the point of adding a second one in Melee? What was the point of keeping that second one and adding a third one in Brawl? You say it like these were all flukes brought about by last-minute time decisions; ergo, if it happened twice what makes you think it won't happen again? Doesn't even have to be Krystal, and it probably won't be, I'd bet it'd be Leon or something such. Basically, they've come this far, on "flukes" or last minute decisions or whatever excuse you want to come up with, and they have several viable options for a last character even if they just go with the clone route again (nevermind that if they picked Krystal they wouldn't even have to make her a clone, all they'd have to do is play SFA to get a moveset for her, right down to A attacks). Why pitch a fit now that it shouldn't go all the way, on the verge of being done and over with? It's not going to "steal" a spot from anyone they weren't planning on putting in to begin with. Why can't Starfox hit the Mario/Zelda/Pokemon pantheon, and by extension, why can't any other series eventually reach for that number? It's just a number, after all, and the series isn't ending with Brawl or whatever the next game is, so there's no danger in it.

Oh, god, "true fan" nonsense. I've heard enough of that mindset in other quarters, thank you very much. Excuse me while I throw up. (And if we're going down that road, Sakurai can come talk to this "true" F-Zero fan so I can set him straight on just how horribly he handled absolutely everything related to that series in Brawl. What? It doesn't work that way? WHAT A SURPRISE.)

[Shrikeswind]

Guys, stop. We're getting to the point where we're basically arguing "My series is better than yours!" Stop squabbling like a pack of first-graders over who was next on the slide.

[Manspeed]

Hey, I just wanted some balance between the different series, which is why I suggest not suggesting any more characters for those that are either one-shots (the ones Arcadenik mentioned), rotating (Fire Emblem and Pokemon), have no viable characters left (MOTHER), or already have three or more (which is basically all the rest at this point).

My guess behind the F-ZERO skimp in Brawl is that Sakurai is merely a Captain Falcon fan and not a fan of F-ZERO outright.

[Johans Nidorino]

This thread was made with the assumed parameter that a fourth Smash Bros. game would have 50 characters. So I didn't support a fourth Star Fox character.

Character genders should not be a major factor for selecting what characters should become playable. The need for variety belongs to games with their own playable characters, but this is a crossover of various genres of games and you can't pick a female character just because she's female. You first have to consider the role of those characters in their game series. Whether no other characters would represent better the adventures you lived in those games, within this number limit.

Arcadenik, when will you learn that not only Japanese knew Ice Climber? That you didn't know it before Melee doesn't mean we all didn't. It was released in America in the 80s and largely spread in the 90s formerly because of famiclones and later because of emulation.

[Manspeed]

I remember reading somewhere that Euro NESes had Ice Climber as the boxed-in game instead of SMB+Duck Hunt. Can any of you Euro guys tell me if that's true? If it is, then it may explain some of Ice Climber's significance.

[somemannerof]

I'd recommend Mike Jones: there's a (possible) nostalgia factor for him in North America, StarTropics was one of the few Nintendo franchises with no representation in Brawl, and, given that the appearances of Japanese-only characters have led to newfound North American interest (Fire Emblem, "Starfy", possibly the Sin & Punishment series, though that might be due more to the VC), Nintendo might try to see if it works both ways.

As an aside, isn't it amazing that Smash Brothers has grown so popular that it can lead to the importation of entire multiple series?

[Shrikeswind]

Just saying, Sin & Punishment was actually already planned for an American release but was cancelled due to the Gamecube's release. Still, good point, but it seems theoretical to me, since Star Tropics wasn't released in Japan, where the Smash Bros. games are made.

[somemannerof]

Ooo, that's a good point about the English release of S&P. I can't believe I forgot that.

Still, It'd be interesting to see if the same magic Smash worked for Fire emblem went the other way.

[Arcadenik]

I think a good way to balance the roster is to sort all characters into four categories. Then count how many characters fall into each category in all three games and do the math to get the percentages. Then use the percentages to limit how many characters each category might have within the SSB4 roster. So, here are the four categories all characters fall in:

- main characters
- secondary characters
- retro / cult / Japan-only characters
- third party characters

SSB: 12 characters, 10 franchises

Main: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Captain Falcon (8 characters, 66%)

Secondary: Luigi, Jigglypuff (2 characters, 17%)

Retro / Cult / Japan-only: Samus, Ness (2 characters, 17%)

Third Party: n/a (0 characters, 0%)

SSBM: 25 characters, 13 franchises

Main: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Young Link (9 characters, 36%)

Secondary: Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Falco, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pichu (9 characters, 36%)

Retro / Cult / Japan-only: Samus, Ness, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, Dr. Mario (7 characters, 28%)

Third Party: n/a (0 characters, 0%)

SSBB: 35 characters, 19 franchises

Main: Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Toon Link, Samus/Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, Olimar, Fox, Captain Falcon, Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Ike (14 characters, 40%)

Secondary: Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Diddy Kong, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Falco, Wolf, Lucario, Jigglypuff (12 characters, 34%)

Retro / Cult / Japan-only: Pit, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Marth, Ness, Lucas, Mr. Game & Watch (7 characters, 20%)

Third Party: Snake, Sonic (2 characters, 6%)

So, maybe if we are getting 50 characters with third-party characters, I think this is a reasonable balance.

- 20 main characters (40%)
- 15 secondary characters (30%)
- 10 retro / cult / Japan-only characters (20%)
- 5 third party characters (10%)

If we don't get third party characters but we still have 50 characters, then maybe this one could be a reasonable balance.

- 22 main characters (44%)
- 17 secondary characters (34%)
- 11 retro / cult / Japan-only characters (22%)

If we are getting 45 characters with third party characters, maybe this one could be it.

- 18 main characters (40%)
- 14 secondary characters (30%)
- 9 retro / cult / Japan-only characters (20%)
- 4 third party characters (10%)

If we are getting 45 characters without third party characters, maybe this one might work.

- 20 main characters (44%)
- 16 secondary characters (36%)
- 9 retro / cult / Japan-only characters (20%)

Below are four lists with SSBB characters and the blank items are for SSB4 characters who could fill them. I think it might help cover many possible scenarios.

SSB4 Main Characters
1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Yoshi
4. Wario
5. Link
6. Toon Link
7. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
8. Kirby
9. Olimar
10. Fox
11. Captain Falcon
12. Pikachu
13. Pokemon Trainer
14. Marth
15. Ike
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.

SSB4 Secondary Characters
1. Luigi
2. Peach
3. Bowser
4. Diddy Kong
5. Zelda / Sheik
6. Ganondorf
7. Meta Knight
8. King Dedede
9. Falco
10. Wolf
11. Lucario
12. Jigglypuff
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.

SSB4 Retro / Cult / Japan-only Characters
1. Pit
2. Ice Climbers
3. R.O.B.
4. Ness
5. Lucas
6. Mr. Game & Watch
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.

SSB4 Third Party Characters
1. Snake
2. Sonic
3.
4.
5.

[Flip]

SUPER FIGHTING ROBOT...

MEGA MAN!

[BeamClaws]

And his theme should definitely be Megaman 2's title theme.