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Post by kirbychu on Feb 3, 2009 18:52:01 GMT -5
Or maybe, seeing as he's Fox's rival, Wolf was just more notable than Krystal, the token girl.
Seriously, if Bowser got in, but Peach didn't, would you guys be complaining about it?
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Feb 3, 2009 19:14:29 GMT -5
Anyway, we're trying to make a nearly perfect roster for NDB, not improve Brawl. I feel like Shrikeswind is doing a mix of the two. I think Wolf got in due to some sort of pre-planning on Sakurai's part. Wolf appears in Melee's intro movie even though there's no trace of him anywhere else in the game. Then he appears in Brawl as a playable character. Coincidence? I think you mean that characters like Ridley and Goroh were at least trophies while Wolf wasn't (possibly because they were preparing special trophies for him). Still, his appearance in the intro movie doesn't mean he would be intented to be playable. Both in the intro movie and in the actual game or its sequels, you need to show what were the major events in each character's universe. |
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Post by Arcadenik on Feb 3, 2009 19:32:51 GMT -5
Hmmm... good question, kirbychu. Knowing how "everyone" just dismiss characters who haven't fought or are notable for being not capable to fight, I think "everyone" would be against Peach's inclusion in a SSB game, not realizing that Peach could just use vegetables and float like in SMB2 and slapping and hitting enemies with her frying pan and floating with her parasol like in SMRPG. "That's so lame and stupid! She sucks!" might be the typical reponse to someone who would come up with a moveset for Peach.
Suppose someone suggested Zelda to be playable in a SSB game, she would face the same issues Peach would have. One might suggest that Zelda use magic like Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, and Farore's Wind and get the "That's lame! Zelda didn't even use those spells, Link did!" response in return.
Remember, many of us were guilty of that concerning Red as a playable character before Pokemon Trainer was confirmed.
As a matter of fact, I've been thinking of how to make a Wars character work in a SSB game for a while now. Many people want Andy, Sami, and/or Max to be playable - but they weren't really participating in hand-on-hand combat. They just ordered the Infantry soldiers to fight.
So, this is what I came up with - Commanding Officer for the Wars franchise representative. Commanding Officer is a generic title like Pokemon Trainer is. Like Red is to Pokemon Trainers, Andy is to Commanding Officers, so I selected Andy. He stays in the background like Pokemon Trainer but he is in his tank. You control a trio of Infantry soldiers like a three-man team (Ice Climbers are two characters in one, Infantry soldiers are three characters in one!)
They could use their guns in combat like how some FPS games have the shooter use his gun as a melee weapon. They could bury a land mine (down smash) and toss a grenade up (smash up) like Snake's smash moves. They could use machine guns (down B) like Ivysaur's Bullet Seed, only horizontal. They could throw three grenades (side B) like Snake's Hand Grenade. They could charge their bazookas and shoot (B) like Samus's Charge Shot. They might climb a rope ladder (up B) that the off-screen helicopter drops. The Final Smash might have Andy's tank firing at the stage from the background.
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 3, 2009 19:39:47 GMT -5
Haven't you mentioned that same moveset on here before? Either way, this isn't really the topic for that.
And I think another generic order-giving character would undermine Pokemon Trainer's uniqueness. At least Samus changes via Final Smash as opposed to Zelda's Down B and the proposed Diddy/Dixie combo would've likely utilized two different movesets as opposed to Ice Climbers.
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Post by Arcadenik on Feb 3, 2009 19:47:52 GMT -5
I always thought Pokemon Trainer was just Zelda/Sheik with a third transformation.  |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 3, 2009 20:34:13 GMT -5
Anyway, we're trying to make a nearly perfect roster for NDB, not improve Brawl. I feel like Shrikeswind is doing a mix of the two. Of course. No other way to put it, really. Though pre-planning would certainly explain his appearance in Brawl over Krystal. |
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 3, 2009 20:47:22 GMT -5
I agree with Arcadenik, not wanting Krystal is like not wanting Peach or Zelda. They're all on the same level methinks.
They're all love interests/ damsels who had breif moments of action in the past. But serve as important devices in the stories.
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Post by Da Robot on Feb 3, 2009 21:22:53 GMT -5
@ Arcadenik, To expand on your point about saying the PT is like Z/S, don't forget about the 2 minute stamina/tiredness feature and having (for the better) to change the Pokemon to make it better. When you think about it, as Z/S you can stay as either one for the entire match with out any effect like that happen. Also why hasn't anyone posted this fact about Ridley from Smashwiki before? "Hacking shows that Assist Trophy data of Ridley was found, but, unfortunately, Ridley doesn't appear as an assist trophy despite his other numerous references." |
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Post by Spud on Feb 3, 2009 21:26:38 GMT -5
Um on the wolf preplanning thing. Didn't the lead singers of Runaway Five (from the mother series) appear in both SSB and SSBM?
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 3, 2009 21:31:51 GMT -5
Heheh... Yeah, I wouldn't count the intros on anything. As lovely as they are.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 3, 2009 21:58:26 GMT -5
Um on the wolf preplanning thing. Didn't the lead singers of Runaway Five (from the mother series) appear in both SSB and SSBM? Where were they in the original? And didn't they cameo in Onett? Or didn't their van anyways? |
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Post by Arcadenik on Feb 3, 2009 22:02:25 GMT -5
Thank you, Da Robot. That's pretty much the only other difference between PT and Z/S.
Pokemon Trainer gets 3 "transformations" with the stamina gimmick while Zelda/Sheik get 2 transformations without the stamina gimmick. So, is Pokemon Trainer undermining Zelda/Sheik's uniqueness?
I just incorporated Pokemon Trainer's "giving orders to the fighters from the background" idea and expanded on Ice Climbers' "play with two characters but you control only one" idea to come up with Commanding Officer. Andy stays in the background and gives orders to a trio of Infantry soldiers. You only control one soldier while the other two follow the leader.
One can also point out that the Diddy/Dixie combo incorporates Ice Climbers' "team system" and Zelda/Sheik's "transformation". Are they undermining Ice Climbers' and Zelda/Sheik's uniqueness?
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Feb 4, 2009 0:19:03 GMT -5
I'm still not sure how people envision three simultaneous characters in one in a SSB game. Maybe only one of the three is in the main line while the others are at his sides? The Ice Climbers are able to attack simultaneously and that's what makes them comfortable to use. Where were they in the original? They were in the ending image for Ness. I miss those pictures. |
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 4, 2009 2:51:13 GMT -5
I agree with Arcadenik, not wanting Krystal is like not wanting Peach or Zelda. They're all on the same level methinks. Please be joking. Please, please be joking. |
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 4, 2009 9:32:24 GMT -5
Didn't you just compare Krystal to Peach yourself? Like at the top of the page?
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