Smash Bros. Rumble - A NinDB Production

[Johans Nidorino]

Feb 4, 2009 23:13:37 GMT -5 Shrikeswind said:

If they add Claus they'd have to add from Mother 2 / Earthbound. My call there would be Paula, in all honesty.

I'm not sure if you say that because EarthBound was the only one outside of Japan (let's remember that it's indiferent to European and Australian players). But I lean towards the Masked Man because he's for the most part the most important villain in the game as well as the other half of Lucas (you can't say the same thing about Ness' friends). In an ideal world, everybody should play either the official games or unofficial translations of all Mother games and enjoy all the Mother content in Smash games ;D

Also in SSB4, Ness will likely have the same moves as always. The Lucas you know in Brawl is how Paula could have been made, too. Would they make Paula different than Ness and Lucas, and how?

[Shrikeswind]

No, actually, because it'd even out the Mother 2 / Mother 3 ratio. Having just Ness and both Lucas and Claus would be hard to swallow.

Paula could EASILY be done different.

[Koopaul]

Mother is a difficult series. It had a different cast every game... Except for Porky. Perhaps Porky would be a good character, a character combination of both Mother 2 and 3. Meh, I don't know. I'm just talking here.

All I know is that I personally feel it wouldn't be fair to have two Mother 3 characters and only one Earthbound character or the other way around. But that's just me.

[Shrikeswind]

You forgot Giygas. He's been in Mother and Earthbound.

Good call on Porky, though. Adding Porky to the line-up would actually keep the rep even. He'd have to merge forms, though, because there'd be no way in Heaven or Hell he'd be able to make it solely as the Pig King.

This leads me to wonder: If a theoretical Smash game featured Ness, Paula, Lucas, and Porky, would it be over-repping Earthbound or would Earthbound and Mother 3 have equal rep?

I tend to overthink things. Leave me alone.

[Arcadenik]

Mother is repped just fine as is. Why should a discontinued franchise with 3 games (I read that the creator decided that there would be no Mother 4) get 3 or 4 reps? That is over-repping. There is a reason Sakurai gave Ness and Lucas their friends' moves. If we put in Paula, she would be just a clone. And Porky is perfect as the boss. And let's not put in Ninten, despite the small differences between him and Ness, they look practically identical for most part and he would be just a clone, too. So, no, I think Mother should not get any more reps.

[Johans Nidorino]

Let's not be so complicated. The events in Mother 2 and Mother 3 can co-exist, so I'm not convinced about the need to "even out" those numbers as they're chapters of the same continuity. And 3 is a good number in a SSB with 50 characters. It bothers me that I don't want four and suggesting a third one implies a fourth one according to this fan-invented policy ^_^'

If nobody else likes the idea, it's okay; all I say is that it's very feasible and the Masked Man is a different mold of character that should neither be wasted nor necessarily imply the addition of a fourth character.

[Koopaul]

Well I have no problem with another Mother rep. It's just I don't want to favor one game over another. Having Masked Man would sort of favor Mother 3.

[Arcadenik]

Good post, Koopaul. I think Sakurai did a good job balancing the Mother franchise in Brawl.

Mother 2 / Earthbound got Ness, Onett stage, Jeff AT

Mother 3 got Lucas, New Pork City stage, Porky boss

Mr. Saturn appears in both Earthbound and Mother 3, right? So, it is perfect as an item.

EDIT: The only beef I have with Sakurai's job repping Mother in Brawl is that it only got Ness, Lucas, Porky, Jeff, and Mr. Saturn trophies. Where are trophies of Ness's party members, Lucas's party members, and especially Ultimate Chimera?

[Manspeed]

If there had to be more than two MOTHER characters, I'd say Ninten is the best bet since he'd complete the trilogy. Three is all we need. Star Fox had three characters and they all have similarities, so why not MOTHER? At least Ninten's moveset could have a considerable number of differences to Ness and Lucas since PK Starstorm and other such attacks weren't around in MOTHER 1. I think I made one once. You could probably find it in the Moveset Factory thread.

Plus, you gotta admit, it would be pretty funny to see people's reactions when they add a character who looks like an exact copy of Ness but actually has a totally different moveset.

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai? Adding more clones? For the lulz? ;D

I could see Sakurai doing that with Ninten in SSB4. That's what he did to Wolf. Sometimes I wonder if he's just too lazy to come up with new movesets that he has to resort to making clones just to beef the roster numbers. I mean, yes, he made many original movesets with Meta Knight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, Snake, Ike, Pokemon Trainer, Diddy Kong, Sonic, King Dedede, Olimar, Lucario, and R.O.B. I am really glad he changed his mind and decided not to add too many clones (the forbidden seven, though Mewtwo was literally a clone with an original moveset LOL) even though it would beef the roster number from 35 to 40.

ROW 1
1. Dr. Mario (removed)
2. Mario
3. Luigi
4. Wario
5. Bowser
6. Peach
7. Yoshi
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong (removed Dixie Kong)
10. Captain Falcon

ROW 2
11. Wolf
12. Falco
13. Fox
14. Ness
15. Lucas
16. Ice Climbers
17. Kirby
18. Meta Knight
19. King Dedede
20. Olimar

ROW 3
21. Plusle & Minun (removed)
22. Pikachu
23. Pokemon Trainer
24. Lucario
25. Jigglypuff
26. Mewtwo (removed)
27. Mr. Game & Watch
28. Marth
29. Roy (removed)
30. Ike

ROW 4
31. Link
32. Zelda / Sheik
33. Ganondorf
34. Toon Link
35. Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik (removed both)
36. R.O.B.
37. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
38. Pit
39. Snake
40. RANDOM (later changed to Sonic in the last minute, so the game was delayed for the first time, but Sakurai probably still wanted RANDOM so he decided to remove the forbidden seven to make it a perfect 9x4 rectangle instead of 10x4 rectangle with RANDOM sticking out somewhere to ruin the shape but that's JUST MY THEORY! )

But I just noticed that today.... how Sakurai took the Melee roster and added one more row, going from 9x3 to 9x4. So, wouldn't it be the first logical step to making a SSB4 roster by adding one more row, going from 9x4 to 9x5? I think 44 (plus random) or 45 (without random) characters in SSB4 is our best bet, in my opinion.

[Manspeed]

Side Note: You don't have to say "in my opinion" if you already said "I think". That's being redundant.

Secondly, Ninten would only be a semi-clone like Lucas. I pictured him using a Yo-Yo for regular attacks, PSI for Smash attacks, and a whole bunch of different PK techniques for specials, namely Shield, Teleport, Paralysis and Hypnosis . His Final Smash would be PK Beam since that one was exclusive to MOTHER 1 and because PK Starstorm didn't come about until Earthbound.

Whatever clones are still there were either partially de-cloned or are there due to lack of time. The development team is only made up of humans with a deadline to meet, ya know.

[Koopaul]

Hmm... What do yo guys think? 45 or 50? I can't decide. I'm afraid that with 45 there may be a chance we'll leave out some good ones.

Hey, guys. No one has mentioned this but I think Ray (Custom Robo) is just dieing to be a fighter don't you think? He was on my roster by the way. I think he has real potential.

[Shrikeswind]

Arcadenik: No, because they didn't do that from Smash 64 to Melee. From SSB to SSBM the character count went from 12 to 25. Even without clones he already made that theory wrong by adding both a column and a row for Melee. Just because there are nine more slots from Melee to Brawl doesn't mean there'll be another nine more slots from Brawl to SSB4. Though it certainly is a very organized way to do it. Makes it easier to count up what you got. I'd say with or without the random option, 50 is a good clean number. 5 rows of 10, and the random button doesn't necessarily need to be in the roster.

[Arcadenik]

Thanks for the side note.

So, Ninten could be a semi-clone like Lucas is, that's entirely possible even if I don't agree with Mother having 3 reps.

What are your thoughts on my suggestion about expanding the roster from 9x4 to 9x5?

[Da Robot]

@ People who keep bringing up character select grids. (I'm not mentioning names).

Come on guys don't bring the silly grid system into this discussion, it doesn't help.

I thought we were just trying to come up with a good 50 character roster we could all (mostly) argree on as a good roster, not come up with a "character select screen layout", if you want to do a CSSL discussion make your own thread for it.

Because seriously, who knows what the CSSL could look like in the next game?


Finally did any CSSL predictions before SSBB came out help to predict the final roster?

I rest my case.

Feb 5, 2009 20:33:11 GMT -5 Koopaul said:

Hmm... What do yo guys think? 45 or 50? I can't decide. I'm afraid that with 45 there may be a chance we'll leave out some good ones.

Hey, guys. No one has mentioned this but I think Ray (Custom Robo) is just dieing to be a fighter don't you think? He was on my roster by the way. I think he has real potential.

I would like to see him in, it doesn't matter which game version gets in for me, I just want to see another rep that's a robot (Thank you R.O.B. for taking that role).