Smash 4 NOT-character discussion

[Spud]

Mar 13, 2009 18:09:18 GMT -5 Arcadenik said:

They haven't done the same with Pokeball Pokemon in all three games so I don't know if they will do that with the Assist Trophies. I doubt they would do that, though they could do it if they wanted to. In my opinion, the beauty of Assist Trophies and Pokeballs are the surprises inside. What fun are they if you always know who will show up?

Which is about how it is with the current balance. You always get the same 3 or 4 assists while never seeing the rest. Same goes for pokémon.

A my music style adjustment system is desperately needed, if not a much better % balance.

[Arcadenik]

I think that a certain set of Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon are randomly selected before each match so those characters appear the most. Wasn't it like that in Melee, too?

[Koopaul]

Mar 13, 2009 12:53:35 GMT -5 Arcadenik said:

The Golden Hammer lets you float when you tap A repeatedly, whether its squeaky or not. I think it should come back. Its a great item.

I think Dragoon is just right as is. It can be difficult to get all three parts and you can drop them when you get knocked around a lot. That's why the one-hit KO is your reward for the hard work getting all the parts. Plus there's a chance you might miss when firing the Dragoon when your opponent moved just on time or just dodged it on time. So its not flawless since it could backfire on you by not hitting its target.

I don't like clone items. Golden Hammer is just a stonger version of the hammer with the ability to float. The good thing about the old hammer was that it made it hard for you to move and recover. The Golden Hammer breaks that, by giving you the power to float. The regular hammer used to be a really good item, now that it has a shinier version rivaling it... well, ain't so good anymore.

-Getting the pieces is hard work? Getting a Dragoon is easy as pie! It was like one of the most common items in my game. I almost never got to see a Smash Ball because of it. Also the Dragoon is extremely hard to dodge because you can't predict when it will hit you. Unlike other things in Smash Bros. where you get a chance to dodge because you can see when the projectile is coming at you. Dragoon is instantaneous unlike Snake final Smash in which there is time between his grenade fire and when the grenade actually hits.

[Boo Destroyer]

I thought of the Hydra from Kirby Air Ride working in a similar way, in how you get all the three pieces to form it. But not sure how it could work, though... (At least differ from the Dragoon)

[Arcadenik]

Dizzy Dial - from the Paper Mario series; throw it at your opponent and it will reverse their controls - left becomes right and vice versa; could be very effective against human players

Superminty Leaf - from the original Kirby's Dream Land; this mint leaf is so fresh you will breathe icy cold air that can freeze your opponents; works like Superspicy Curry only its cold instead of hot

Ultra Hand - a Nintendo toy from the 1960s; pick it up and you will save it like you do with the Dragoon parts so when you fall off the screen and reach the left or right side of the screen, the item will automatically activate and reach all the way towards the edge of the closest platform and pull you right to it

[Boo Destroyer]

Laser - from the Star Fox series. It's like the laser enhancement item in the series, but it's held and aimed just like the Cracker Launcher, but it fires strong lasers (limited, too).

REMOVE:
Banana Peel - The oldest trick in the book. Do you think we could fall for that even in a game?

[seanking64]

Tell that to all my friends who briefly banned Diddy Kong from their games (and I believe even briefly gave up Brawl to go back to Melee) because they were so annoyed at how his banana peels would screw everybody over.

[Koopaul]

We can always fix it. After someone slips on a Banana Peel once, it dissapears.

[Flip]

I noticed yesterday that there are only 3 Pokemon allowed out at a time, as opposed to Brawl's 6. Seems sort of pointless, if you ask me. Also, and we've done this before, the selection is just far crappier this time around. They nixed a few "standy" attackers (Unown/Beedril, Hitmonlee/Scizor, Clefairy) and then more interesting ones (Chansey, Zapdos, Raikou, Articuno, etc.). I also noticed that you get the same like... 10 Pokemon. Constantly. In Melee, I recall legendaries being slightly more common and the variety being a bit more compelling. There are more Pokemon than Melee, but it doesn't feel that way in the slightest. Also, why weren't there female Wobbas? :<

The Golden Hammer is a really great item. It's a hammer with more maneuverability and the reference alone makes it worthwhile. Plus the "glitch" hammer is even crappier than the glitch DK Hammer, because at least that gives you the head to throw. As far as the Dragoon, it's a clever idea and more often than not in multiplayer matches it's a fail anyway when you're all a high level of gameplay. It's cheap at low, novice level Smash, but when you're all pros it's actually really nice because it replaces the Smash Ball and it's all the more exciting when somebody actually pulls off a KO. Beside: the custom animations for each character are pretty nifty, esp. Game and Watch's

I don't understand why the Cloaking Device was nixed, considering there's still an Invisible Mode. It could just have easily become the "Blue Box" or "Magic Cape" or, hey! novel idea here, something from Metal Gear. Red Shell became Hothead but they really aren't the same thing; Barrel Cannon just needed to be tweaked and they cut it instead :/ ; Flipper was fantastic but they apparently thought it was a poor man's Bumper and didn't want both >.> ; and the Parasol was really goofy and I enjoyed it.

EDIT:

Arcadenik, this is how the Ultra Hand should work: you carry it like any other item, and by pressing A you launch a tether grab automatically. It works like the Clawshot and pulls in characters, who you can launch again using any of your custom throws. It's fast as hell and has longer reach than the other tethers, but it's got a very short frame where it can actually grab foes. It can be used in midair as a tether ledge grab too, for any character.

It's a nasty claw on a spring deal, right? Make it a tether for any character. That would be awesome.

[Boo Destroyer]

Vanish Box would have been a good choice for the invisibility status. Invisible Mode but no item to do that, wtf?

Also: the Kart

From Mario Kart fame, you can ride around in it and run others down with it. Hey, if Wario can do that with his bike...

[Manspeed]

I've always thought that the Cloacking Device should be kept with it's original effect save for actually being able to receive damage, while the Vanish Box could appear as a separate item that makes you transparent and thus immune to attacks but not invisible.

@ Arcadenik:

The Mint Leaf would never work that way because A) it's called Sweet Potato in Japan, and thus the "minty" effect wouldn't make any contextual sense and B) it's effects in Kirby 1 were nothing like how you described them there.

If anything, it would give the character unlimited jumps for a short time or something.

[BeamClaws]

Lollypop (from kirby) makes anybody who touches you get hurt, but you are still vulnerable to attacks. And combine it with the star for super cheesie effects.

[Boo Destroyer]

Brawl already did give the Superspicy Curry quite the facelift. Super-dormant things have a tendency to be completely redone.

Edit: Additionally, just for reference: Not everything in most games have official names. This is somewhat evident in some Melee and Brawl trophies: for example, the turtle from Majora's Mask was referred to as just a "Turtle" without any actual name known for it.

If something definitely doesn't have an official name, it's best called what it is.

[Sqrt2]

Mar 15, 2009 1:43:17 GMT -5 Boo Destroyer said:

Laser - from the Star Fox series. It's like the laser enhancement item in the series, but it's held and aimed just like the Cracker Launcher, but it fires strong lasers (limited, too).

REMOVE:
Banana Peel - The oldest trick in the book. Do you think we could fall for that even in a game?

Seeing as we've already got the Cracker Launcher, Raygun and Super Scope weapons, do we really need a Laser gun item? Why don't we have Tiny's Feather Bow from DK64 as a weapon as well!

I agree with removing the Banana Peel item though. Given that there is a tripping mechanic implemented in Brawl (and knowing Sakurai, it will be in the next game), I fail to see the point of this item apart from sheer 'comedy' value.

[Boo Destroyer]

^
"Shooting" items category much?