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Post by Koopaul on Jun 10, 2010 20:00:10 GMT -5
Sonic's problems have nothing to do with story and everything to do with trying to be more "mature" and "epic"
Having more story and character evolution doesn't mean going the path of Sonic. Look at Banjo-Kazooie. Simple plot, explore magical worlds to save your little sister from the evil witch.
Then Tooie came out... Not only did the story evolve but so did the characters. Jinjos now had a village and a King, Bottles had a family, Klungo went from being a cutscene character to a recurring boss, and Gruntilda was now a skeleton bent on sucking the life out of the entire island!
Oh yeah that small closed in area was now an entire island!
And you know what? When Bottles died did anyone angst? Was there this long dragged out emotional scene? No. It was still the goofy silly Banjo-Kazooie, but it wasn't the same story and we got to see more of that world and learn more about our favorite characters.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 10, 2010 20:22:05 GMT -5
And therein lies the problem: The Sonic series started taking itself seriously. Always a bad omen when a game like that starts taking itself seriously.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 10, 2010 20:36:33 GMT -5
Funny thing is, Super Mario Galaxy 2 has just as much story and continuity as Banjo-Tooie did. The whole reboot thing was even spurned by Rosalina reseting the universe at the end of Galaxy 1.
So I don't really know where your complaints are stemming from, Koopaul. Seems to me that you want the next Mario game to have as many cutscenes as your average Metal Gear Solid entry.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 10, 2010 20:59:58 GMT -5
Whoa, backing out now.
Yeah, some shit about Galaxy 2. I'm probably gonna pick this up tomorrow after work. Bit late, I know, but that's what happens.
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 10, 2010 22:02:47 GMT -5
Funny thing is, Super Mario Galaxy 2 has just as much story and continuity as Banjo-Tooie did. The whole reboot thing was even spurned by Rosalina reseting the universe at the end of Galaxy 1. So I don't really know where your complaints are stemming from, Koopaul. Seems to me that you want the next Mario game to have as many cutscenes as your average Metal Gear Solid entry. That's only a theory. I don't think Galaxy 2 was a result of that happening given the fact that at the end all the characters are gathered together celebrating. And it's not the same thing, see the examples I made? Gruntilda sucking the life out of the island is a continuation of the story that Banjo-Kazooie started. She didn't kidnap Tooty again. But it's not just the story, it's the world itself. In Banjo-Tooie, characters from the previous title evolved instead of assuming the same role. NPC were actually characters! Bosses would talk to you and be characters themselves (much like SM64) |
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 10, 2010 22:22:16 GMT -5
Yeah and? Mario platformers don't have anywhere near as many characters as Banjo 1 did, and only a few characters from Banjo 1 even appeared in the sequel to "evolve" at all.
They even clearly hang lampshades on the fact that Bowser keeps kidnapping the princess when the opportunity calls for it (largely in the RPGs) so I think complaining about that isn't very valid anymore.
Really Koopaul, you're grasping at straws with the comparisons here. Mario HAS a world, so stop acting like it doesn't just because the main platformers show less of it. Everything's fine the way it is.
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Post by The Qu on Jun 10, 2010 23:02:44 GMT -5
I felt Galaxy 2 showed Mario's world quite well. Starship Mario is a very nice example of this. The different species are clearly shown doing different things- the Penguins have numerous great examples. They aren't just lifeless characters.
As for the tool comment. I think that is a great philosophy towards a Mario platformer. The reason people love the Mario games in the first place is the gameplay. If you make everything serve a purpose to that end, it enhances the product.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2010 23:28:07 GMT -5
Starship Mario is a very nice example of this. I think you mean the FACESHIP good sir ;D |
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 12, 2010 2:47:43 GMT -5
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 12, 2010 3:14:45 GMT -5
Not really, apparently they're trees.
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 12, 2010 3:20:49 GMT -5
If they're supposed to be trees, then somebody must've accidentally used a picture of some type of shadow monster for reference when they drew them.
But the texture is called "HellValleySkyTree", so maybe that's just what trees look like in hell.
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 12, 2010 3:24:21 GMT -5
Yeah I just love these weirdo things in games.
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Jun 12, 2010 10:46:57 GMT -5
...You know just because a filename deep down in the game's code has 'trees' in it doesn't have to mean they're actually trees...
Spooky creatures peeking at you is right next to Pokemon's truck as mysterious, awesome easter eggs.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Jun 14, 2010 9:41:23 GMT -5
I just love the fact Shiverburn is called "Hell Valley". That's creepy in itself! ;D
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Post by cheatmaster30 on Jun 14, 2010 16:56:54 GMT -5
I'm frankly perfectly happy Mario games don't go all heavy on the continuity/evolving world/storyline thing. If one thing can kill a franchise faster than anything (okay, bar fans running the asylum), it's canon. Sure, having a series and it's settings mature and change over time is good for some realistic works, as well as those with a very short series lifespan (or fixed ending point), but would probably kill Mario dead. Otherwise if something goes, it's pretty much a done thing and gets in the way of the rest of the series. See Ganon's 'death' in the Legend of Zelda and how it causes possible inconveniance to future writers.
Although there was some kind of continuity in Galaxy 2. Look at the Bowser Jr fights. One showed him using the head part of the next boss to introduce the Gobblegut battle, then you fought Megahammer which was the craft he was flying to introduce the boss scenes, then Megahammer has been smashed to pieces and is lying half working in the Boom Bunker level.
As for the shadowy figures... it's definitely something interesting. More so considering they have an actual texture name in the game and aren't just treated as part of a background layer, hence seemingly having some kind of possible significance. Maybe a story element that was dropped? Considering the whole way the level was set up was akin to Mario infiltrating an enemy base.
Am I remembering this right? I remember some game comment that this set of levels was more guarded than the previous ones, and something about Prince Pikante being over there or something as Mario approached the boss arena.
In other news, I got the game two days ago, and am currently at 241 stars. It's a good game, but damn some of those green stars were a pain to get, especially when you had to use Fluzzard or the gravity in Flipsville. Or that one in the Boo Moon Galaxy.
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