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Post by parrothead on Jan 27, 2011 21:10:08 GMT -5
Huge problem parrot: A big chunk of the "obscure" characters you want for "representation" just wouldn't work in a traditional fighting game. Roughly 2/3 of them are below average human height, and each Capcom crossover usually only has about one or two (for example, MvC1 had Mega Man and Roll, while MvC3 has Viewtiful Joe and Arthur). This isn't even an all-Nintendo celebration like Smash Bros. is either. It's a crossover with another company. When approaching what kind of characters should be included you need different sensibilities. It doesn't have to have a lot of obscure characters. At least one will do. Some of the least known playable Capcom characters that appeared in Capcom's VS. series are Son Son, Captain Commando, and Saki Omokane (Quiz Nanairo Dreams; also appeared as a helper in MVC1 and as a card in one of the SvC card games). Some appeared as helpers like Lou & Siva from the two games in Three Wonders for example. The Son Son arcade, according to Stuttering Craig at ScrewAttack, is extremely difficult. Despite the arcade version being released worldwide, the NES port was only released in Japan. Even though there were some home computer ports, most gamers focused on the NES in the '80s. For Captain Commando, despite the futuristic set-up and humorous characters in the beat 'em up arcade, the actual gameplay is almost completely identical to Capcom's other beat 'em up Final Fight, and does little to set itself apart. It even takes place in FF's Metro City, but in the year 2026. Even most customers don't want the creators to create "rip-offs" of their own creations. He never appeared in TvC and, most likely, will never appear in MvC3. For Saki Omokane, I have no idea why Capcom added her, but this Capcom Unity thread probably explains why. But of course, Capcom is a different software developer compared to Nintendo. I'm pretty sure that while Capcom listens to their fans more than Nintendo, Nintendo is usually more cautious with their development than Capcom. But not every popular character can be added. Phoenix Wright is one example. Remember when Capcom couldn't add him, due to the size of his Japanese and English speech balloons for his popular quote "OBJECTION!" being unequal, making it impossible to add him. Plus, when it comes down to it, Pokemon defined the Gameboy. Well, that and Tetris. If you really wanted a character to rep the Gameboy for whatever fanboy reason, you're gonna get a Pikachu because those other games never survived. Pokemon is to SMB1 and R.O.B., which helped popularize the NES; Zelda 1 and Metroid 1, which helped sell the FDS (as well as the NES outside of Japan); and Pikmin, which helped sell the GCN. What I am asking is "why not have the 'Ice Climbers' of the GB era?" The NES classic Ice Climber was obscure before SSBM, right? |
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Post by Prince~Of~Light on Jan 28, 2011 16:40:54 GMT -5
Plus, when it comes down to it, Pokemon defined the Gameboy. Well, that and Tetris. If you really wanted a character to rep the Gameboy for whatever fanboy reason, you're gonna get a Pikachu because those other games never survived. Pokemon is to SMB1 and R.O.B., which helped popularize the NES; Zelda 1 and Metroid 1, which helped sell the FDS (as well as the NES outside of Japan); and Pikmin, which helped sell the GCN. What I am asking is "why not have the 'Ice Climbers' of the GB era?" The NES classic Ice Climber was obscure before SSBM, right? Parrot has a good point there. Ice Climbers were there to be presenting the retro NES characters back then. Pretty much anyone who was somehow included in Smash Bros became very known. Heck, Namco X Capcom also introduced some obscurities. Many crossovers do, and approvedly representing that era more well than the present mainstream franchises, which have gone on much away from their roots. Besides, there's no new Ice Climber-game... They should make one, like they did for Kid Icarus. (-<_<-) |
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Post by Manspeed on Jan 29, 2011 0:06:05 GMT -5
Another thing about Namco X Capcom: It sucked and nobody bought it. Tough nipples.  So what exactly is this conversation about again? |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jan 29, 2011 0:34:35 GMT -5
I don't get the argument here. If I understand correctly, Capcom is apeshit bananas for obscurities in their crossovers, which also tend to be huge. Though it may be rather limited, wouldn't Nintendo's obscurities be more viable in that knowledge? Or is my knowledge faulty?
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Post by parrothead on Jan 29, 2011 3:42:22 GMT -5
However, Namco X Capcom was released only in Japan, probably because there are a lot more fans of Namco in Japan than there are elsewhere. When regions outside of Japan (especially North America) think of Namco, most of them (including grandparents and kids) can only think of Namco's arcades of the early '80s (especially Puck-Man). Some think of their 3D fighting games, especially the ones in the Tekken series (because though being less original than Virtua Fighter, people think it's "kewler") and some think of Katamari Damacy (because of its odd theme unbelievably passing localizers).
During most of Namco's business, they lacked their own localizing division (until the early '90), while several third-party publishers ignored most of their library. Very few of them represented in NxC were released only in Japan, while most of them never became hot topics, even today.
NxC and Psikyo vs. Capcom aren't the only cross-overs Japan-only. Most other cross-overs were also released only in Japan.
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Post by Manspeed on Jan 29, 2011 15:23:18 GMT -5
I officially have no idea what point you're trying to make, Parrot.
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Post by The Qu on Jan 29, 2011 17:44:16 GMT -5
You and me both, Frog.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jan 29, 2011 18:06:59 GMT -5
Third on that, boys.
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Post by parrothead on Jan 29, 2011 21:38:51 GMT -5
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jan 29, 2011 22:28:31 GMT -5
No, Parrot, because you jumped to talking about something on a topic related to a company known globally for only 3 franchises. Capcom has a significant number of globally-renowned franchises, and anyone who's ever played Smash Bros. knows the same is true for Nintendo. I'd figure we'd start the bidding at Mario & Mega Man and work down from there. Y'know, because we all remember Alice, of global renown after Balloon Kid, made it to Brawl as you expected, Parrot. Oh wait.
End of the day, obscurities confuse most people. If I told my gaming illiterate mother I'm looking forward to Mystery of Murasame Castle, she would guess I found an anime. If I say Donkey Kong? Off the bat she knows "Ah, game." Gamers are sold on these things anyway. Mom didn't think "Hm, is Ness in this game?" when she looked at Smash 64 in the store. She thought, "Hey, it's Mario. Shrikeswind would love this." Bigger audiences need bigger faces.
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Post by TV Eye on Jan 30, 2011 1:57:23 GMT -5
Parrot, they changed his name for a reason. And I'm gonna agree with Shrikes. Both Nintendo and Capcom are well known developers will a well known arsenal of series and characters. Why would they throw in a bunch of obscure characters when they have a huge repertoire of characters people can name off the bat? Though, I will agree some obscurities are good. Look at MvC3, they've got characters like Taskmaster, MODOK, and X23 to balance out the Magneto's, Spiderman's, and Wolverine's. But every character on Capcom's side is ridiculously popular. The only one's I'm sure people will be skeptical on are Hsien-ko, Nathan Spencer, and Trish... |
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Post by parrothead on Jan 30, 2011 3:09:39 GMT -5
No, Parrot, because you jumped to talking about something on a topic related to a company known globally for only 3 franchises. Because I was replying to Tsukushi-Kun about the NxC topic. He started it. One of the biggest reasons why it was left in Japan was Wonder Momo. Even the compilation that includes Wonder Momo (Namco Museum Encore) was left in Japan, all because of content not safe for the young audience (e.g. revealing her panties). Capcom has a significant number of globally-renowned franchises, and anyone who's ever played Smash Bros. knows the same is true for Nintendo. I'd figure we'd start the bidding at Mario & Mega Man and work down from there. Y'know, because we all remember Alice, of global renown after Balloon Kid, made it to Brawl as you expected, Parrot. Oh wait. End of the day, obscurities confuse most people. If I told my gaming illiterate mother I'm looking forward to Mystery of Murasame Castle, she would guess I found an anime. If I say Donkey Kong? Off the bat she knows "Ah, game." Gamers are sold on these things anyway. Mom didn't think "Hm, is Ness in this game?" when she looked at Smash 64 in the store. She thought, "Hey, it's Mario. Shrikeswind would love this." Bigger audiences need bigger faces. Of course. Popular franchises are the fuel that keeps the companies running. But just because a character is obscure doesn't mean you should hate them. A good portion of the characters in TvC are characters that many of us didn't know about until we heard about the game. I'm not saying you're not allowed to hate obscures, but hating someone because you don't know them isn't a good reason. If people want something new to themselves in games, why not one or more obscures? Even though some are outdated, I mean "heard for the first time". I don't hate popular characters, it's just that so many people wanting the same popular characters over and over again becomes tiresome. Wouldn't it be boring if the only characters were the most popular ones, and if we could have guessed the entire roster before the crossover came out? When I saw SSB64's entire roster in a Nintendo Power magazine, I noticed Ness. Back then, I've never played Mother 2 / SNES EB before, but I've seen it in a GamePro magazine my brother subscribed to. Ness made me curious about Nintendo's obscurities. For Captain Falcon, before his appearance in SSB64, most people didn't know him as much as his origin, and thought he's nothing but a driver. A few years ago, when the "Falcon Punch" meme erupted because of the scene in the final episode of the F-ZERO anime being uploaded on YouTube, several people thought that is where his Falcon Punch came from without knowing that he fought in the SNES F-ZERO manual's comic, while being a tribute to Kamen Rider and Max Rockatansky. They even forgot that the F-ZERO anime came out after SSB64. Mystery of Murasame Castle That's actually "The Mysterious Murasame Castle". "Nazo no" stands for "Mysterious", while "no Nazo" stands for "of Mystery". "Zelda no Densetsu" became "The Legend of Zelda", while "Densetsu no Stafy" became "The Legendary Stafy" (but with "Starfy" to make more sense to foreign gamers). Although there was that "Legend of Stafy" poster in M&L: SS, that was a rough translation by Nintendo of Japan. Parrot, they changed his name for a reason. And I'm gonna agree with Shrikes. Both Nintendo and Capcom are well known developers will a well known arsenal of series and characters. Why would they throw in a bunch of obscure characters when they have a huge repertoire of characters people can name off the bat? Though, I will agree some obscurities are good. Look at MvC3, they've got characters like Taskmaster, MODOK, and X23 to balance out the Magneto's, Spiderman's, and Wolverine's. But every character on Capcom's side is ridiculously popular. The only one's I'm sure people will be skeptical on are Hsien-ko, Nathan Spencer, and Trish... I know, but I felt like saying "Puck Man" after watching YouTube user ReplayBurners upload a gameplay video of it. Not every character on Capcom's side are ridiculously popular (as in highly-praised). There are some others like the Chiki Chiki Boys, Cyber Blue (Battle Circuit), Ninja Hanamaru, Meta Ball (Metal Walker), Max (Gekitou! Power Modeler) and Lee Wong (Tiger Road) are some examples. But I'm going to say this again: I'm not saying I want the roster to have a lot of obscure characters. Just one to few. Let the rest of the roster have several popular characters. |
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Post by Prince~Of~Light on Jan 30, 2011 4:06:55 GMT -5
No, Parrot, because you jumped to talking about something on a topic related to a company known globally for only 3 franchises. Because I was replying to Tsukushi-Kun about the NxC topic. He started it. One of the biggest reasons why it was left in Japan was Wonder Momo. Even the compilation that includes Wonder Momo (Namco Museum Encore) was left in Japan, all because of content not safe for the young audience (e.g. revealing her panties). Of course. Popular franchises are the fuel that keeps the companies running. But just because a character is obscure doesn't mean you should hate them. A good portion of the characters in TvC are characters that many of us didn't know about until we heard about the game. I'm not saying you're not allowed to hate obscures, but hating someone because you don't know them isn't a good reason. If people want something new to themselves in games, why not one or more obscures? Even though some are outdated, I mean "heard for the first time". I don't hate popular characters, it's just that so many people wanting the same popular characters over and over again becomes tiresome. Wouldn't it be boring if the only characters were the most popular ones, and if we could have guessed the entire roster before the crossover came out? Though, I will agree some obscurities are good. Look at MvC3, they've got characters like Taskmaster, MODOK, and X23 to balance out the Magneto's, Spiderman's, and Wolverine's. But every character on Capcom's side is ridiculously popular. The only one's I'm sure people will be skeptical on are Hsien-ko, Nathan Spencer, and Trish... Not every character on Capcom's side are ridiculously popular (as in highly-praised). There are some others like the Chiki Chiki Boys, Cyber Blue (Battle Circuit), Ninja Hanamaru, Meta Ball (Metal Walker), Max (Gekitou! Power Modeler) and Lee Wong (Tiger Road) are some examples. But I'm going to say this again: I'm not saying I want the roster to have a lot of obscure characters. Just one to few. Let the rest of the roster have several popular characters. You did great favor over here Parrot! Almost exactly the same words I wanted to say (Expect, I thought Ness was Ash expect with psychic powers. ) Don't now start to think I was the one who wanted a lots of obscure characters. As Parrot said, just a few, maybe to appeal at the more serious fans of the developers. (-lvl-) They really do add variety, since it's fun to see where they come from. (->>-) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2011 11:58:28 GMT -5
Ice Climbers were there to be presenting the retro NES characters back then. Pretty much anyone who was somehow included in Smash Bros became very known. You know, I made an article about this a couple years ago that pretty much nobody agreed with... |
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Post by Manspeed on Jan 30, 2011 12:23:37 GMT -5
....I STILL have no idea what point Parrot is trying to make.
Edit: But a couple of things are certain...
These mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Stop trying to make everything a popularity contest, Parrot.
This statement is so unbelievably dense it makes my head reel with pain.
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