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Post by TV Eye on Apr 23, 2012 18:38:14 GMT -5
Super Mario Galaxy 2 was nothing to the first game. Most people give it crap because it SEEMS like it's the same game, but the settings are different, the star system is different, even the Flashback Galaxy was a nice surprise. It was perfection as far as sequeling a Mario game is concerned. Oh. I assumed if you didn't like NSMB Wii for being like the first one, then you wouldn't have liked Galaxy 2 for the same reason. My mistake! To me they're pretty much the same deal. They both took the game before them and made a new game out of it... but if anything I'd say NSMB Wii was more different from its predecessor than Galaxy 2 was. Which isn't a fair comparison. One was on a handheld and the other was on a console. Both Mario Galaxy's came out on the Wii so it only makes sense that they would have similar gameplay. I'd cut NSMBWii some slack if they made the playable characters play differently like SMB2 did, but they didn't. It didn't matter who you played as, it was just like "What color do you prefer? Red, green, yellow, or blue?" Galaxy 2 made sure that when you played as Luigi, you were playing as a different character. - Yoshi is a joke compared to his debut appearance in SMW. Do I have to explain why? You know it too. I still feel damn foolish to fall on their excessive advertisement of oh-so nerfed, one-stage-wonder and more generically operating Yoshi. I didn't even feel like I needed to mention Yoshi. Again, when Galaxy 2 added Yoshi, they gave him unique powerups and amazing gameplay additions that took advantage of the Wiimote. Whereas the Yoshi in NSMB Wii was just the same Yoshi we've used a billion times before in the levels we've played back on the SNES. |
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 23, 2012 19:59:28 GMT -5
So are you criticising New SMB Wii for being too much like New SMB DS, or too much like the whole SMB series in general? Because NSMB Wii is no closer to NSMB DS than SMB3 was to SMB1. But yes, NSMB Wii doesn't really add anything new to the 2D Mario games as a whole....
...except multiplayer, which is completely new to Mario, and is the main damn point of the whole game. If you don't have people to play it with, then its understandable you wouldn't like it - its a multiplayer title first and foremost. And a good one at that.
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Post by Koopaul on Apr 23, 2012 20:18:35 GMT -5
Omg no! SMB to SMB3 made leaps and bounds!
Not only were its physics and mechanics better tuned:
It was an incredible visual jump
Introduced the idea of themed worlds
Had an overworld with Toad Houses and such
Had unique new enemies and bosses
Powerups that allowed flight!
And so much more!
It really was a true sequel and progression of the series.
New Super Mario Bros. series borrows the same mechanics, same worlds, same music, same almost everything!
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 24, 2012 0:04:10 GMT -5
NSMB Wii had better tuned physics and mechanics, had unique enemies and bosses, and new powerups (including one that allowed flight!). It couldn't introduce the elements of themed worlds or overworlds since that had already been done. So pretty much the only element in your list left is the huge visual jump, which the game definitely didn't have, and is rightly criticised for... in fact that is how this whole discussion began.
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Post by Koopaul on Apr 24, 2012 2:27:02 GMT -5
We're comparing the jump between SMB1 and SMB3 compared to the jump between NSMB and NSMBW.
World Maps was something new and never done before in the Mario series when SMB3 came out, same thing with themed worlds and flight. These were big NEW things for the Mario series when that game came out.
So I'm talking about what's new in NSMBWii that was never done before and stands out from other titles besides 4 players.
There isn't much. See what I mean by a big jump?
Having the things that the past games had doesn't make it new. A flying power-up was new in SMB3 but not in NSMBWii.
They should have done something that really made it unique and all its own.
Perhaps a day and night system?
Level builders?
Customizable character stats?
How about worlds that have never been done before?
These aren't the best ideas but they would have added more to it.
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Post by kirbychu on Apr 24, 2012 4:01:38 GMT -5
Which isn't a fair comparison. One was on a handheld and the other was on a console. Both Mario Galaxy's came out on the Wii so it only makes sense that they would have similar gameplay. But both Galaxys also have pretty much the same gameplay as Mario Sunshine. And Mario 64. Just like both NSMBs have pretty much the same gameplay as all 2D Marios preceeding them. I'd cut NSMBWii some slack if they made the playable characters play differently like SMB2 did, but they didn't. It didn't matter who you played as, it was just like "What color do you prefer? Red, green, yellow, or blue?" Galaxy 2 made sure that when you played as Luigi, you were playing as a different character. I can forgive them for that because the only reason those characters were there is for multiplayer, and multiplayer would have been unbearable if the characters were as unbalanced as they were in SMB2. Everyone would want to be Luigi or Peach, whoever was stuck as Mario would be screwed. So I'm talking about what's new in NSMBWii that was never done before and stands out from other titles besides 4 players. lol. What did SMB3 do that was new besides world maps and flight? You can't just say "WHAT WAS NEW BESIDES THE STUFF THAT WAS NEW?" Of course the answer is nothing. You just discounted the answer in your question. That's stupid. How about worlds that have never been done before? The rainbow world was new, but like I said earlier, the world themes don't really make an ounce of difference to the game besides the backdrop. |
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Post by Koopaul on Apr 24, 2012 6:11:04 GMT -5
Um look at post #47 I just listed a bunch of ground breaking things SMB3 did for the series. Do I need to list them again?
Oh and world themes do make a difference. Water worlds consist of a lot of swimming. Desert worlds have sinking sand and tornados. Ice worlds have slippery surfaces to trek on. Geez this should be obvious.
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Post by TV Eye on Apr 24, 2012 7:24:58 GMT -5
Which isn't a fair comparison. One was on a handheld and the other was on a console. Both Mario Galaxy's came out on the Wii so it only makes sense that they would have similar gameplay. But both Galaxys also have pretty much the same gameplay as Mario Sunshine. And Mario 64. Just like both NSMBs have pretty much the same gameplay as all 2D Marios preceeding them. I...don't really understand this logic. Just because you're Mario means you have the same gameplay? I'm not going to disagree with the 2D Mario's, but you're missing my point. Nintendo is always bragging about being made up of innovators, so why can't they apply their creativity on the 2D games? Your comparison on the 3D games makes no sense because Sunshine Mario played totally different from 64 Mario (FLUDD. A big innovation), and Galaxy Mario had Wiimote controlled attacks (which is also a massive gameplay change). Granted, all you can really do in the 2D games are run and jump, which is why all I really want to see are different themed worlds. That's the LEAST they can do, but they're not going to do it. Have a space world. Have a pirate world. Have a godddamn Feudal Japan world, I don't care! Just anything that's not grass, desert, mountain, jungle, snow, etc. Which is why they need to innovate! The basic mindset of a Nintendo fan is "Oh, uh...just leave it." But multiple characters with completely different movesets would mean alternate paths in maps! I'm going to use the SMB2 characters as an example. Imagine you see a giant wall that if you were Luigi, you could just jump over it. Mario and Peach could go below it, and Toad could push it out of the way. Something like that would be awesome. And there could even be some where teamwork was used in order to make the multiplayer not seem like a tacked on gimmick. |
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BeamClaws
Balloon Fighter
Beam claws closes the gap with his excellent foot speed!
Posts: 934
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Post by BeamClaws on Apr 24, 2012 7:41:37 GMT -5
For one thing, NSMBWii did have the spin jump/slowing down your descent that was pretty important to the gameplay (and made it very hard to go back to the first NSMB for quite a few people). In fact, I'd say we could chalk that up to "better tuned physics and mechanics"
And honestly, can you think of any other themed worlds to use? At least the level design WAS pretty different (compare the jungle world in both games for example). In fact, the levels felt a LOT bigger, and as far as individual features in level design goes, NSMBWii probably had more (vine swinging, barrels, spinning floors, etc.)
And the game seemed to be focused on the multiplayer, with picking things up (in fact, that was probably the reason for the propeller suit's creation)
And as far as a visual jump goes... I don't think we can have a visual jump any farther with Mario games. Take a look back at the tweet last page. Specifically The first 2 pictures. They both include the Castle and multicolored hills in the background, yet NSMBWii still looks infinitely better. Even the ground and Mario look better. The 3DS one looks pretty much the same as NSMBWii but that is an accomplishment as well, since you're going from console to handheld and retaining the same graphics. Mario games aren't realistic, they're cartoony. The visual jump between SMB1 and 3 was a technical improvement (In fact, if I recall correctly they used updated SMB3 sprites for the All-Stars version of the first game/lost levels) But Mario games have pretty much perfected their art style now... There's really no room for improvement there. We can have a change of setting like SMW, but that doesn't really count. If SMW was on the NES, the graphics would really be the same as SMB3 (redo the sprites all you want, it's the player's opinion on what looks better.)
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 24, 2012 9:12:04 GMT -5
We're comparing the jump between SMB1 and SMB3 compared to the jump between NSMB and NSMBW.World Maps was something new and never done before in the Mario series when SMB3 came out, same thing with themed worlds and flight. These were big NEW things for the Mario series when that game came out. So I'm talking about what's new in NSMBWii that was never done before and stands out from other titles besides 4 players. There isn't much. See what I mean by a big jump? Having the things that the past games had doesn't make it new. A flying power-up was new in SMB3 but not in NSMBWii.They should have done something that really made it unique and all its own. Perhaps a day and night system? Level builders? Customizable character stats? How about worlds that have never been done before? These aren't the best ideas but they would have added more to it. Do you actually read your own posts? If we are just comparing NSMB DS to NSMB Wii, then Wii having a flight powerup that DS didn't is exactly the same change as SMB3 having a flight powerup that SMB1 didn't. I don't get how you can't understand your own point, just a few paragraphs after you yourself made it. But its irrelevant anyway, all I was trying to say is that NSMB Wii was, despite a very similar name and visual style, different to NSMB DS in terms of the differences between the mainline Mario 2D platformers. Does it do some of the wanky stuff some of you want it to do? No. But does that mean it is a bad game? Not necessarily. I would like Waluigi to be the star of every game, so does that mean every game that doesn't have him as a star is bad, or could it be that my ideas do not necessarily equal what is actually good? |
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Post by TV Eye on Apr 24, 2012 11:25:33 GMT -5
I would also like to point out that I never thought NSMBWii is a bad game. It's just a rehash of everything we've seen before. And honestly, can you think of any other themed worlds to use? Yes, and I've posted quite a few already. Here's some more! City, cave system, futuristic (Neo Bowser City anyone?). Come to think of it...most of the tracks from the Mario Kart games would make incredibly fun worlds. |
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Post by 8bitretroshit on Apr 24, 2012 12:37:11 GMT -5
Now we're mentioning new Mario worlds, the first two gameboy Mario games had some pretty kooky, creative worlds going on too.
Easter Island! Undead Chinaland! Halloween Area! Ant Fortress! Friggen Giant Lego Mario Zone!
If they did something like that again I'd be more inclined to check it out actually.
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Post by kirbychu on Apr 24, 2012 16:48:38 GMT -5
Your comparison on the 3D games makes no sense because Sunshine Mario played totally different from 64 Mario (FLUDD. A big innovation), and Galaxy Mario had Wiimote controlled attacks (which is also a massive gameplay change). I'll give you FLUDD, but take that away (as the game often does) and you just have Mario 64 gameplay. I wouldn't call Galaxy's Wiimote-shake moves a massive gameplay change, but if we are calling them that... NSMB Wii had new Wiimote moves, too. And like BeamClaws said, it was pretty hard to go back to the DS one without them. I kept dying because I was shaking the DS and wondering why I wasn't getting any extra air. XD There's also all the controlling platforms with the tilt of the remote stuff that happens all over that game. Ironically, everybody here seems to be complaining about NSMB Wii not doing anything new, when that's the only one of the two that did. Wiimote controls and multiplayer throughout the main game were both new to 2D Mario... NSMB DS didn't do nothin'. |
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Post by TV Eye on Apr 24, 2012 22:29:04 GMT -5
Ironically, everybody here seems to be complaining about NSMB Wii not doing anything new, when that's the only one of the two that did. Wiimote controls and multiplayer throughout the main game were both new to 2D Mario... NSMB DS didn't do nothin'. DS was a remake. It's nice to get an old game re-imagined on newer software. |
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Post by Koopaul on Apr 24, 2012 22:59:16 GMT -5
Not a remake, but a homage to the older games. It's nice to get a homage to the old titles, it was great when Donkey Kong Country did it. However, I don't want them to make a habit of it. We've returned to Donkey Kong Country, now I want to see where they'll go next.
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