|
|
Post by Koopaul on Sept 9, 2012 1:41:34 GMT -5
No it's just that I know they are gonna make them do the same things again, shoot at you with their wand and spin around in their shells when you jump on them.
If they did something really different with the Koopalings I'd be okay with it.
Remember how Super Mario World handled the Koopalings? They could've given them the wands again, but this time they fought differently.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Qu on Sept 9, 2012 3:01:21 GMT -5
But you don't know that they will play the same. We haven't even seen them outside of the opening.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Sept 9, 2012 17:53:14 GMT -5
It's a prime example. I for one also think they are overusing the Koopalings in too repetitive a fashion. They're not hard to beat and their patterns are so easy to predict that you can pretty much beat them all without thinking. At least the giant enemies in NSMB were all fought in different ways.
This is where I have to emphasise that while I'm not a fan of the bosses in the NSMB series being easy, but this isn't something worse than the original SMB series. The originals were repetitive and samey as well.
These games borrow so many little stage and graphic design elements from Yoshi's Island, I wish they would borrow this too. Yoshi's Island "just" had big enemies, but they were all awesome and mostly challenging, and as a result they were so much more memorable. You never knew what you were going to be up against.
Bosses are often sticking points for some gamers, and I suppose making them all similar but progressively (slightly) harder means anyone can plough through them. But surely the point is that each world ends in a good boss battle to cap it off!
I know Mario can only really rely on jumping and buttstomping, but you can do plenty with that without making it samey and boring. Have a load of attacks to dodge, force the player to do some cool jumping. It's supposed to be hard! You have warp zones and cheat blocks now, so you can afford to inject some challenge into the boss battles.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wildcat on Sept 9, 2012 18:33:23 GMT -5
Well, I haven't played NSMB2 yet (and I don't plan to, as it's not really appealing to me), so maybe that's why I'm all for Koopalings. I really liked the fights in NSMBWii.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arcadenik on Sept 9, 2012 19:22:26 GMT -5
Since the current topic is about boss battles in 2D Mario games, I searched for videos of boss battles from all 2D Mario games so we can compare and contrast. Enjoy!  Super Mario Bros. (sorry, no Lost Levels video since it's pretty much the same anyway) Super Mario Bros. 2 Super Mario Bros. 3 (SNES version) Super Mario Land Super Mario World (GBA version) Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins New Super Mario Bros. (DS) New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Part 1) New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Part 2) New Super Mario Bros. 2 (do not watch this if you have not played it yet) |
|
|
|
Post by Shadrio on Sept 9, 2012 19:58:37 GMT -5
As long as the fights themselves aren't easy and are interesting, I don't care if it's the Koopalings or super versions of enemies. Also, I like the idea of Boom-Booms being mid-world fortress bosses, they felt well done in SM3DL, and that way, the mid-stage Koopaling's battles aren't as insipid as they were in NSMBW.
So far, everything of what I've heard about NSMBU has made it quite interesting (except dual toadage, but whatever), especially that Boost-Rush mode. Also, a "Forest of Illusion"-esque world? Fuck yeah.
Color me "fucking hypocritical", but this game seems like it would satisfy my wants and needs.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leon on Sept 9, 2012 20:08:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that I really have a horse in this race, but I do have a comment on bosses.
Personally, I am not very good at 2D platformers, especially of the Mario kind. So I actually appreciate having a rather simple boss after a long castle level. However, I also like fun boss fights, so perhaps there could be a middle ground.
Do you think that something like a Colosseum which features only a boss battle would work? Something that's before the castle, and allows the devs to go crazy with the bosses. On the other hand, perhaps that would ruin the pacing of the game...
|
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Sept 10, 2012 2:05:40 GMT -5
Well, a save flag just before a boss (and after all the Star Coins) would mean there's no punishment for losing for those who don't enjoy bosses. They put two save flags in the final castles in NSMB2, so why not?
Looking back it is kinda sad that the Game Boy games (not developed by Miyamoto's team remember) were the most creative when it came to bosses. SML and SML2 didn't have the most challenging bosses (stomp three times), but they were all different and all had their own movement and attacks.
I'm going to stick with Yoshi's Island being the trend-setter here and grump that they don't manage to live up to that standard.
|
|
|
|
Post by Shrikeswind on Sept 10, 2012 11:18:19 GMT -5
Even Lost Levels, with it's redundant music and graphics, was a fresh game solely on gameplay. It was like a very liberal rom-hack (which you later mention, hence I bring it up.) New SMB's sequels? Much more conservative, so they feel kinda samey. Wait, you thought there was a bigger difference between SMB and SMB:TLL than there was between NSMB and NSMBW? Explain please. Perhaps gameplay was a poor choice in words. Lost Levels stuck to the same abilities as SMB1, same as NSMBW, but what Lost Levels did well that NSMBW didn't really is how much it stretched the use of your capabilities. Lost Levels didn't feel too samey because, while it recycled a lot, it made a point of presenting new or improved challenges, which, at least in my opinion, wasn't so well done in NSMBW. That's what I meant. |
|
|
|
Post by Fryguy64 on Sept 10, 2012 12:02:35 GMT -5
I don't like where this is going  Basically, The Lost Levels' fabled difficulty level is cheap. Blind jumps, wicked block and enemy placement, reverse warp zones... While it added some things, such as the ability to jump higher after bouncing on an enemy, plus Luigi's slightly modified skills that still come into play from time to time, the game design itself uses many of the flawed designs that lesser Mario clones are often derided for. SMB had good, clear level design. You never have to guess what's up ahead before making a potentially fatal move and the game never punishes you for exploration. All of the Mario games do this... Except for Lost Levels. I wouldn't be too quick to defend it. |
|
|
|
Post by Shrikeswind on Sept 10, 2012 12:11:25 GMT -5
I'll be honest, I wasn't sure I was going to. All of those points I totally agree with. What it does wrong, it does wrong, but as I said, it avoids feeling samey because it explores your capabilities, which again, Mario Wii doesn't, which is why I bring it up. And for all I'm saying against Mario Wii in comparison to Lost Levels, Mario Wii is still the more enjoyable game. My problem is that it's just the more repetitive.
And then, while talking about Super Mario, I become him. Strange.
|
|
|
|
Post by Da Robot on Sept 14, 2012 19:43:27 GMT -5
So a new trailer for NSMBU . . . Shows off a whole bunch of content . . .
What does everyone think?
(Certainly looks like a better package of content than NSMB2).
|
|
|
|
Post by Leon on Sept 14, 2012 20:54:16 GMT -5
I know it's rather meaningless, but I love how all of the Koopalings have their own custom designed airships. Also Roy's bullet bill blaster is badass.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dances in Undergarments on Sept 14, 2012 21:34:56 GMT -5
So the first world is now the furthest away from the castle and as you progress you get closer?
OMG INNOVATION NEW NEW NEW MARIO REDEEMED
|
|
|
|
Post by Shrikeswind on Sept 14, 2012 23:42:31 GMT -5
AM I IMPRESSED?
Not really. Honestly, it's looking pretty much the exact same as before. I mean, I'll reserve final judgment for later, naturally, but for now, not impressed.
|
|
