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Post by Manspeed on Jun 1, 2014 20:37:44 GMT -5
I sorta wrote this on a complete whim. It's a list of things in Mario's story that were once true but later dropped or changed around. Some of this is Miyamoto's word, but others are based entirely on observation (and in some cases is so obvious it's hard to contest).
- Mario was originally stated to be a carpenter in Donkey Kong, then a plumber in Mario Bros., but ever since Super Mario Bros. he doesn't really have a stated job at all.
- Mario was originally stated to be from New York (specifically Brooklyn in the DiC cartoons, Valiant comics and movie), but as of Yoshi's Island he's from the Mushroom Kingdom.
- In Super Mario Bros. the blocks were stated to be Toads put under Bowser's spell, but in every game after that it's clearly no longer the case.
- Mario and Luigi were referred to as "twins" in Yoshi's Island, but the text was changed to say "brothers" in the GBA version (though I still haven't checked the Japanese text for this).
- The Koopalings were originally Bowser's kids (specifically his "sons" in Japan), but as of New Super Mario Bros. Wii (or perhaps earlier?) they are merely his "underlings".
- Donkey Kong was originally stated to be Mario's pet and a circus animal, but after Donkey Kong Country it seems they've now always been rivals and DK (now Cranky) has always hailed from DK Isle.
- DK was at first stated to be Cranky Kong's grandson (or son, as per Rare's initial intention), then stated to be the same character as the original DK around the time Melee was out, then stated yet again to be Cranky's grandson around the time Brawl was out (Though it seems NoA could've been entirely behind this as I don't know what DK's Melee trophy says in Japanese).
- Bowser was stated to be a sorcerer in Super Mario Bros. but hasn't really displayed any sort of magic or sorcery of his own since then (outside of maybe summoning those UFOs in Super Mario Galaxy).
- Super Mario Galaxy was originally Mario's first meeting with Rosalina and the Baby Luma, but seems to have been replaced entirely by the events of Super Mario Galaxy 2.
- Super Mario 64 makes it clear Mario goes into Peach's castle alone, but Super Mario 64 DS changes the story so that Yoshi, Luigi and Wario went in with him.
- King Boo and Goomboss/Goomba King both act like they've met Mario before in their respective debuts despite us having never seen them before. Their appearances in the aforementioned Super Mario 64 DS seem like an attempt to correct this.
Anybody else have any they'd like to point out?
Edits:
- Mario and Donkey Kong were originally implied to have fought in New York City (or "Big City" as per Donkey Kong for Game Boy), but as of Donkey Kong Land they apparently fought in Big Ape City, a territory of DK Isle.
Suggested by Kriven:
- Super Mario Land 2 seemed to state Mario has his own kingdom and lives in a castle, but in every game since Super Mario RPG he and Luigi are depicted living in a normal house in the middle of a secluded clearing.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 1, 2014 20:59:44 GMT -5
Bowser has demonstrated magical ability in several games since SMB, actually. Remember Paper Mario? It's just something that he usually delegates to his minions while he, for his part, relies more on brute force, technology, and command to handle situations. It's not that he isn't a sorcerer, it's just that it's less emphasized than the fact that he's a giant, spiky, fire-breathing turtle.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 1, 2014 21:34:45 GMT -5
But in Paper Mario, all those fancy magical powers come from the Star Rod. And that's just one game.
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Kriven
Pikpik Carrot
Posts: 160
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Post by Kriven on Jun 1, 2014 21:41:35 GMT -5
A sorcerer is one who is practiced with magic, and Bowser routinely demonstrates that he can manipulate magic artifacts with little to no practice. I don't know where in the definition of "sorcerer" the individual must generate magic themselves (and regardless, Bowser's intro in Brawl demonstrates an ability to teleport using fire...)
Also, just because DK and Mario both were born in the Mushroom World does not mean that they did not travel to Brooklyn at some point, or were maybe even brought there. There's about twenty-eight years of history between the last Yoshi's Island game and Donkey Kong.
As far as other anomalies: Peach's castle seems to undergo constant construction, as it changes dramatically from game to game and even shifts location... The Toad Town from Paper Mario is very different from the town in Super Mario RPG. Along with this is Mario's own home, which has gone from a humble, one-room cottage to more elaborate cabins to being a castle in its own kingdom.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 1, 2014 22:31:08 GMT -5
1) Yeah, but pretty much anybody in the Mushroom Kingdom can manipulate magical artifacts. No sorcerer's license required. 2) Also, just because DK and Mario both were born in the Mushroom World does not mean that they did not travel to Brooklyn at some point, or were maybe even brought there. There's about twenty-eight years of history between the last Yoshi's Island game and Donkey Kong. First thing I'll say is that I strongly dislike it when people suggest this, as it feels like an attempt to give Mario a convoluted comic booky backstory that he really doesn't need. But putting that aside, Partners in Time kinda makes it obvious that Mario and Luigi were raised in the Mushroom Kingdom and have been saving Peach from Bowser since their toddler years. That one's a bit difficult to reconcile with going to "Earth" and back again. Plus it's a cartoon: Bowser being Mario's sworn enemy since childhood kinda makes perfect sense for something this silly. 3) I can't believe I forgot the thing about Mario Land and Mario Castle. That was a weird one-off. So yeah: - Super Mario Land 2 seemed to state Mario has his own kingdom and lives in a castle, but in every game since Super Mario RPG he and Luigi are depicted living in a normal house in the middle of a secluded clearing. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 2, 2014 2:41:08 GMT -5
1) Yeah, but pretty much anybody in the Mushroom Kingdom can manipulate magical artifacts. No sorcerer's license required. Very few do, though, and most of those who do are his subordinates. Further, he's one of the few who doesn't just cast the same old spell all the time, he gets creative. He may not wield it like Sauron, Ganondorf, or Voldemort, but Bowser certainly does warrant the title moreso than most anyone else in the Mario games. |
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Post by kirbychu on Jun 2, 2014 6:34:45 GMT -5
- The Koopalings were originally Bowser's kids (specifically his "sons" in Japan) Is this true? I've always heard that their relationship with Bowser was completely undefined in Japan, and that the Koopalings weren't even named (beyond being referred to in the manual as "little Koopas") over there originally. I prefer the idea that they're all Bowser's kids personally. They make a strangely adorable family. |
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 2, 2014 10:10:55 GMT -5
Yes it is.Bowser's words: "WAHAHAH! From this point on, my sons will explain this game. Listen to my sons and do your best. WAHAHAH!" Due to the way Japanese works, the word used for "sons" here can also a refer to a group that includes daughters. Bowser is also speaking in a very arrogant tone, indicating he is proud of said sons.
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Post by Shadrio on Jun 4, 2014 1:20:38 GMT -5
So, if what you say is true, then he was proud of his sons when he introduced them. Let's just take this down a darker road and say Bowser pulled a stereotypical "Asian Dad" and disowned his sons for failing him  Also, was what were the earliest appearances of the Babies (Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, etc) as an entity coexisting with their current timeline incarnations? The earliest I can remember is Mario Golf on the N64. And before Partners in Time, was there ever a given explanation to their existence in the "current" timeline? Also, you forgot to mention how Yoshi's Island's end was capsized to make way for Yoshi's New Island's story. Of course, while I don't know what goes on during the events of Yoshi's Island DS, there was a Baby DK in that game, which could lead to some re-written story elements. While a short trip to Wikipedia could help me understand what went down in that game, I'm sure someone else here already knows and can add more than I could. |
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 4, 2014 1:38:11 GMT -5
You know, a kids' game. |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Jun 4, 2014 12:33:24 GMT -5
I don't think the Mario "canon" was ever meant to be anything above the level of a cartoon. In fact, here's a recent interview where Shigeru Miyamoto basically says just that: Time and again, Bowser kidnaps Peach. Why do Mario and Peach still race go-karts and play tennis with him?
SM: If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors. And a couple of other choice responses relevant to the current topic: In Super Mario Bros. 3, the Koopalings were supposed to be Bowser's children. But there's also Bowser Jr. Are they all his kids, and are they all from different mothers? Is Bowser Jr. a Koopaling?
SM: Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bowser's only child is Bowser Jr., and we do not know who the mother is.
. . .
Mario has been a boxing referee, a doctor, an Olympian, and a carpenter. Are all these official careers in Mario lore? If he has a medical degree, why does he continue his plumbing business?
SM: There's really only one rule in terms of the things that Mario does. Generally, it's that he's more on the blue-collar side. He's hard-working, and certainly much more physical in nature. So, I think that a doctor is sort of an unexpected and perhaps unbelievable role for Mario. Perhaps the Dr. Mario you're thinking of was maybe, in some way, not necessarily legitimate. Incoming malpractice suit against Mario!  |
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Kriven
Pikpik Carrot
Posts: 160
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Post by Kriven on Jun 4, 2014 13:07:32 GMT -5
Actually, it's possible for "Doctor" Mario to not be the same character as Super Mario... more like a distant cousin or a third brother. If you look at things like "Super Mario Bros." and the movie, where they made the character's name "Mario Mario", it creates a family with the surname of Mario.
Which would make the "Mario" in "Dr. Mario" a surname. So it doesn't really have to be the same Mario who rescues princesses.
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Post by Nester the Lark on Jun 4, 2014 13:50:01 GMT -5
Actually, it's possible for "Doctor" Mario to not be the same character as Super Mario... more like a distant cousin or a third brother. If you look at things like "Super Mario Bros." and the movie, where they made the character's name "Mario Mario", it creates a family with the surname of Mario. Which would make the "Mario" in "Dr. Mario" a surname. So it doesn't really have to be the same Mario who rescues princesses. From the exact same interview I linked to above: Some people claim that Mario and Luigi's last name is "Mario." Are their names officially Mario Mario and Luigi Mario?
Shigeru Miyamoto: This is an old story, but Hollywood did a film version of the Mario Bros. many years back. There was a scene in the script where they needed a last name for the characters. Somebody suggested that, because they were the Mario Bros., their last name should be Mario. So, they made him "Mario Mario." I heard this and laughed rather loudly. Of course, this was ultimately included in the film. Based on the film, that's [how] their names ended up. But, just like Mickey Mouse doesn't really have a last name, Mario is really just Mario and Luigi is really just Luigi. I know this is a Nintendo fan community, but are you guys sure you aren't thinking too hard about this stuff? |
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Kriven
Pikpik Carrot
Posts: 160
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Post by Kriven on Jun 4, 2014 13:51:14 GMT -5
But Mickey's last name is "Mouse" D:
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Post by Shadrio on Jun 4, 2014 14:37:16 GMT -5
Honestly, this whole "Mario Story elements" thing is more of a fun fan analysis of the past years. With all the liberties Mario games take in their stories, it wouldn't be advisable to stress too long on the finer details.
At least that's how I see it. Who wouldn't want to imagine the scenario after Super Mario 3/World in which Bowser
gathers his Koopalings after losing to Mario again and announces that they are no longer his children?... Ok, on second thought, I don't want to imagine that :X
Also, on a side note, I hadn't noticed before how SM is the abbreviation for both for Shigeru Miyamoto and Super Mario. I'm probably a bit late on this one, but it's fun nonetheless.
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