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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jun 4, 2014 16:43:33 GMT -5
Yeah, the fact that the Mario series has little to no story and 'canon' is a huge part of its appeal. It's what makes it what it is. Mario games also aren't made as a single line. They're all made by different people/teams with different sensibilities. Thus, it gives everyone (fans included) the freedom to come up with their own stories and ideas and everything for it.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 4, 2014 16:56:13 GMT -5
These days I don't, since a lot of the time I find most fans' interpretations of this stuff to be unbelievably stupid and unfitting for a character like Mario, but that's a whole 'nother issue entirely. This isn't an editorial thread. It's just a collection of facts.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jun 4, 2014 16:57:41 GMT -5
So you don't try any of your own ideas because of other people's terrible ideas? I'm sorry, I don't get it. And there are diamonds in the rough. Okay, I'll leave it at just that. Just saying how the Mario series has that much freedom. Edit: Carrying over some of the last few posts from the previous page: (Meh, I had to do this) I don't think the Mario "canon" was ever meant to be anything above the level of a cartoon. In fact, here's a recent interview where Shigeru Miyamoto basically says just that: Time and again, Bowser kidnaps Peach. Why do Mario and Peach still race go-karts and play tennis with him?
SM: If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors. And a couple of other choice responses relevant to the current topic: In Super Mario Bros. 3, the Koopalings were supposed to be Bowser's children. But there's also Bowser Jr. Are they all his kids, and are they all from different mothers? Is Bowser Jr. a Koopaling?
SM: Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bowser's only child is Bowser Jr., and we do not know who the mother is.
. . .
Mario has been a boxing referee, a doctor, an Olympian, and a carpenter. Are all these official careers in Mario lore? If he has a medical degree, why does he continue his plumbing business?
SM: There's really only one rule in terms of the things that Mario does. Generally, it's that he's more on the blue-collar side. He's hard-working, and certainly much more physical in nature. So, I think that a doctor is sort of an unexpected and perhaps unbelievable role for Mario. Perhaps the Dr. Mario you're thinking of was maybe, in some way, not necessarily legitimate. Incoming malpractice suit against Mario!  From the exact same interview I linked to above: Some people claim that Mario and Luigi's last name is "Mario." Are their names officially Mario Mario and Luigi Mario?
Shigeru Miyamoto: This is an old story, but Hollywood did a film version of the Mario Bros. many years back. There was a scene in the script where they needed a last name for the characters. Somebody suggested that, because they were the Mario Bros., their last name should be Mario. So, they made him "Mario Mario." I heard this and laughed rather loudly. Of course, this was ultimately included in the film. Based on the film, that's [how] their names ended up. But, just like Mickey Mouse doesn't really have a last name, Mario is really just Mario and Luigi is really just Luigi. I know this is a Nintendo fan community, but are you guys sure you aren't thinking too hard about this stuff? Honestly, this whole "Mario Story elements" thing is more of a fun fan analysis of the past years. With all the liberties Mario games take in their stories, it wouldn't be advisable to stress too long on the finer details. At least that's how I see it. Who wouldn't want to imagine the scenario after Super Mario 3/World in which Bowser gathers his Koopalings after losing to Mario again and announces that they are no longer his children?... Ok, on second thought, I don't want to imagine that :X Also, on a side note, I hadn't noticed before how SM is the abbreviation for both for Shigeru Miyamoto and Super Mario. I'm probably a bit late on this one, but it's fun nonetheless. |
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 4, 2014 20:37:11 GMT -5
Way to argue in bad faith.
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Post by Boo Destroyer on Jun 4, 2014 20:39:03 GMT -5
Way to completely dodge the question. While we're at it: - In Super Mario Bros. the blocks were stated to be Toads put under Bowser's spell, but in every game after that it's clearly no longer the case. Am I the only one who finds this to be particularly creepy? Boy, am I glad they're not going with it anymore. Who the hell thought of this one? |
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Post by Spud on Jun 10, 2014 0:36:19 GMT -5
So a recap of Bowser's powers (magical or otherwise) as best as I can remember.
In Super Mario Bros, His only really interesting thing he can do is breath fire. Other Koopas cannot breath fire.
In Super Mario Bros 3, He can jump pretty high.
In Super Mario 64 he can teleport (2nd boss battle) as well as jumping very high.
In Luigi's Mansion, he's able to summon in spiky bombs at will, though this may technically not be Bowser.
In Super Mario Sunshine he's considerably bigger than he normally is indicating he can manipulate his size.
In Mario Party 5 he grows by a factor of about 3 from drinking some sort of mushroom elixer.
In Super Mario Galaxy he shoots lightning from his hands summoning the ufos, They don't appear in the sky before that like the other ships, so it's not out of the question that he's warping them in.
In Super Mario Galaxy 2 he is again significantly bigger, possibly around 100 times, than normal. He also seems to be able to fly emitting some purple smoke in the opening and none at all during the final boss. One of his final boss attacks is to cause meteorites to hit the planetoid Mario is on, again they're accompanied by purple smoke.
There's several other games where he manipulates his size between battle segments.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 10, 2014 9:53:29 GMT -5
In Super Mario 64 he can dash at you and produce electric shockwaves when he stomps.
In Luigi's Mansion I assumed "Bowser" is just an illusion created by King Boo. But Luigi's Mansion is all sorts of confusing so it's understandable if you're not sure.
In Super Mario Galaxy 2, they straight-up confirm Bowser grew that large by swallowing a Grand Star. Presumably his other powers in the final battle came from there as well.
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Kriven
Pikpik Carrot
Posts: 160
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Post by Kriven on Jun 11, 2014 0:06:39 GMT -5
I assumed any kind of impact-induced shockwave was an environmental byproduct of collision more than it was any kind of sorcery. In the case of Super Mario Galaxy 2 we can't be sure to what degree Bowser is using magic as opposed to physics, considering that the conflicts take place in space (meaning zero gravity, generally) and Bower being large enough to generate his own gravitational pull (like on small meteorites).
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 11, 2014 0:56:59 GMT -5
I assumed any kind of impact-induced shockwave was an environmental byproduct of collision more than it was any kind of sorcery. In the case of Super Mario Galaxy 2 we can't be sure to what degree Bowser is using magic as opposed to physics, considering that the conflicts take place in space (meaning zero gravity, generally) and Bower being large enough to generate his own gravitational pull (like on small meteorites). It's probably a combination. Those meteors are definitely being guided, as opposed to just kinda floating into Mario. Further, he's definitely doing something fancy when he punches the planet: The shockwaves from the meteors spread radially, while those from his fists follow a linear path. Tremors don't radiate along lines of longitude like that in the real world, so if this is a naturally occurring phenomenon in the Mario universe, it's definitely not one we can explain. |
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Post by Koopaul on Jun 17, 2014 0:45:19 GMT -5
Mario does have canon. Very very fluid canon. But still it exists. Otherwise if the series had no canon in the next game Mario could be a unicorn who fights his evil cousin Luigi... who is now a red head.
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 17, 2014 1:23:55 GMT -5
The word you're looking for is "continuity", not "canon". A "canon" is an officially-approved listing or archive that things are included in. The Criterion Collection is a canon. The Disney Animated Canon is a canon. The books in the Bible are a canon. Not all of these things involve continuity, but they do involve some sort of consistent theme of categorization and are all approved for inclusion by a given source.
People often mix these terms up because a lot of the time "canon" does refer to something wherein the overarching link of categorization is continuity connections. Castlevania has an officially stated canon. Metroid has an officially stated canon. Zelda has an officially stated canon that was recently printed in a book. All of these canons have entries that included and excluded based on the word of the official source.
Mario does not have any sort of officially stated or printed canon of any sort. There is no list of Mario games approved by Miyamoto for inclusion nor have there been any Mario games stated to be excluded from any sort of supposed list. What Mario does have is officially stated concepts and story elements printed in various manuals and guides. It also has continuity connections between games of varying tightness. Some of these have been changed or altered over the years, others have been forgotten. Several have been remembered. It all ultimately depends on what kind of Mario game it is, who was involved in its production, and when it was released.
The whole point of this thread was to seek out, list and maybe discuss these altered/dropped continuity connections. That's all.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Jun 17, 2014 5:25:44 GMT -5
Or in brief, "Zelda's continuity creates a canon, whereas Mario's does not." I should probably say more, but Manspeed covered it quite well so all I can really offer is a summary.
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Post by Arcadenik on Jun 17, 2014 8:24:22 GMT -5
I thought that the following Mario games officially counts as canon are:
Donkey Kong (spins off into Donkey Kong games)
Mario Bros. (spins off into Super Mario games)
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario Land
Super Mario World (spins off into Yoshi games)
Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (spins off into Wario games)
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
New Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Super Mario 3D Land
New Super Mario Bros. 2
New Super Mario Bros. U
Super Mario 3D World
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Post by Manspeed on Jun 17, 2014 11:12:19 GMT -5
Based on whose official word, I ask? I just finished explaining that Mario doesn't have an official canon.  |
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Post by The Qu on Jun 17, 2014 11:21:56 GMT -5
Those are pretty much the Big Releases of the Mario series that everything else spins out of, so while it may not be official, it is a sort of de facto canon. The only two I can think of that are questionable are Mario Bros. and Galaxy 1, the latter of which literally retcons itself. Maybe.
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