SSE2 Time

[Boo Destroyer]

We've all been discussing SSB4 for quite some time, but for now, let's cut to SSE2. As fine as it was, I'd like to see how they could work out the next Adventure Mode.

Because of SSE being in Brawl as well, there wasn't as much room for anything else bigger in it. The rest of the single-player modes can be in SSB4 (even a simple yet rather mediocre Melee-type adventure, I don't care), but SSE2 will be on its own. Masamune/Gamehiker did put it best:

Oct 23, 2008 10:51:54 GMT -5 Hiker of Games said:

The SSE was a good idea, but honestly I'd rather see it fleshed out as a separate game. That way SSE2 and SSB4 can both excellent games.

So this time, SSE2 should literally be its own game. Right, let's get to it:

1. More enemies from other series
We've all had this problem. As cool as those Subspace folk were, it would be more...full of (Nintendo) life to see Mario, Zelda, Kirby, etc. etc. enemies appear.

2. Some sort of full-fledged NPC system
Characters from Assist Trophies, stages, and whatever else that aren't playable fighters can serve different purposes and roles in both the storyline and gameplay.

They can be additional CPU-controlled helper characters. Along with two people playing together, these kinds of characters can also serve as pseudo-Players 3&4. Four people out at a time, obviously.

3. More bosses
This is a definite must. But a few that I can think of off the top of my head right now that would be impressive ones are Ashnard and the Black Knight from Fire Emblem.

4. NPCs Part 2: Characters that aren't a part of gameplay, but do play large parts in the story
This calls for...missions! These characters (from Assist Trophies, stages, and whatever else) can be related to satisfying certain conditions in certain levels.

-Hurry to save a Nintendog from some goons before time runs out.
-Reach the summit of that mountain to meet Dialga and Palkia who may help you at that point.
-Hitch a ride on Dyna Blade to somewhere, but go through a scrolling shooter-type level first. (This may sound gameplay-related, but meh)

5. Better implementation of items
The way it was done originally was just...bah. Don't know what else to say, but they ought to be more dynamic this time around.

Eh...this shouldn't be be a sequel, but more or less a redoing of the original SSE, but with all these new additions.

[Fryguy64]

Frankly, I think different characters should have different storylines or different paths through the game.

One thing we lost entirely with the absence of unique Break the Targets stages were areas where your specific character was tested. Mario heading through a world based on Mario games, needing skills that Mario possesses... that's a great idea. If you really want, make it so other characters can go back and play them when you beat it, or something.

This would also mean more enemies from Nintendo games, rather than the 90% brand new, 10% from Super Mario we ended up with (like Snake and Sonic being the only two third party reps, I feel that having a tiny bunch of Super Mario enemies made the game seem rushed - either go all out, or don't go out at all).

Otherwise, different storylines depending on the characters you choose to play on a stage as. I don't really know how this'd work in practice, as Brawl already had enough cutscenes to cripple the Wii, but I don't like how eventually you just end up picking your favourite characters for the SSE, and it doesn't do anything.

[Flip]

I'm in 100% agreement on characters driving the story. I originally had thought that Sakurai was serious about your "team" affecting the story, but in the end all it did was add two or three more alternate cutscenes where the roles changed. Nothing else. And it bothered me a lot.

Probably my favorite part of Subspace was the Great Maze intro. Where all the characters bust up the giant Subspace ship with their various vehicles, then they start beating up the villains and "rescuing them." For some reason, the scene where Link and Zelda "decide for the better" to wake Ganon really nails me. I just find it to say a lot more than it shows, and I hoped that all the scenes in the game were like that.

In the future, I honestly would prefer more emphasis on the characters themselves interacting in their own worlds and with one another. There were scenes with Mario, Pit, Link, Kirby, and Yoshi. Those were cool. But did they really interact? ...eh. Most of the time, they did their one-time "badass moment" and were written off for the rest of the game. Why couldn't all the characters have the fluidity and emotion of Dedede, Kirby, and Meta Knight? ...oh wait, I think I answered my own question *facepalm*

As far as gameplay goes, this game needs far more "customization." Alternate paths, select-a-path (Mega Man style, baby!), more Metroidvania type stuff, definitely Assists/Pokemon playing a role... It would be so much cooler if they actually placed it in the game environments with the proper characters. It would be like Captain Rainbow on crack.

[BeamClaws]

The game should use brawl's save data, or at least have some influence on it, like the second way to unlozk mewtwo is to have data of a beaten SSE2 on your system or something. Or it could just be a second disk that comes with SSB4. Also, we need speaking, different paths, different starting, different endings, and maybe it's not even SSe, it's a completely new adventure mode. And the colloseum from melee's intro should be in. It will have a completely different developement team so the makers of SSB4 have more time on the multi player and Sakurai will work on SSE2.

[Manspeed]

I kinda want to see multiple "scenarios" for 1-Player mode a la Kirby Super Star. Each would have a different set of a rules. For example, first you'd have a game where you pick your path along a world map with linear stages, and then you'd have a different game that's just one big maze a la the Great Maze/Great Cave Offensive.

I guess Classic and All*Star would be limped with these on the 1-Player mode menu screen, too.

[Boo Destroyer]

Oct 27, 2008 15:19:26 GMT -5 Flip said:

I originally had thought that Sakurai was serious about your "team" affecting the story, but in the end all it did was add two or three more alternate cutscenes where the roles changed. Nothing else. And it bothered me a lot.

The thing about that is simple: Sakurai was basically an expert at lying.

As far as gameplay goes, this game needs far more "customization." Alternate paths, select-a-path (Mega Man style, baby!), more Metroidvania type stuff, definitely Assists/Pokemon playing a role... It would be so much cooler if they actually placed it in the game environments with the proper characters. It would be like Captain Rainbow on crack.

Game environments? You mean like the Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule, etc.?

I don't know, this strange island seems to work just alright. But it has ruins, a castle, and a ZOO, but no villages and no cities and the like? (A fucking ZOO over those two things!) That's what flustered me the most about it.

[Dances in Undergarments]

Firstly, it needs to be based on, but unlike SSE, not entirely built from, the Smash Bros engine. The Smash Bros engine exactly as it is doesn't really work for a sidescrolling beat-em-up. Get a development team that can focus entirely on the SSE game, as Game Master mentioned, maybe rope in a few developers that are in charge of their own similar games (Clover comes to mind), and build a game similar to, but not exactly, Smash Bros.

I would make the game as close to traditional side scrolling beat-em-ups as possible. Levels would be set up to be replayed for high scores. Characters would start with a basic moveset and would be able to upgrade their moves (not just to their Smash movesets, but beyond - I could picture, for example, you being able to upgrade Mario's Bv to do some actual damage, and then eventually you could even have branching upgrades to instead turn it to Turbo FLUDD or Rocket FLUDD, or just a powerful regular FLUDD). Certain items would be equipped, rather than just picked up (though certain items would still be lying around).

As others have said, it definitely needs more enemies, settings, etc from games, too.

[Fryguy64]

Here's a question... Did anybody actually use up any of their stickers for the SSE? The only one I've used so far was the one that gives you more trophy stands. And even then I'm wondering if it was worth it.

So for me, that whole "stat" element of the game was totally pointless. It was quite easily beatable without it, so why is it there?

[kirbychu]

You know, I forgot the stickers were even usable until just now. Never even looked at the screen where you do it. And I've 100%'d the SSE twice.

[Smashchu]

Oct 27, 2008 18:29:34 GMT -5 Fryguy64 said:

Here's a question... Did anybody actually use up any of their stickers for the SSE? The only one I've used so far was the one that gives you more trophy stands. And even then I'm wondering if it was worth it.

So for me, that whole "stat" element of the game was totally pointless. It was quite easily beatable without it, so why is it there?

Becuase Intense will bend you over. Trust me, those stickers helped a lot.

My idea of how the adventure mode should be will be vastly different then all of yours.

I think the mode couldn't hurt to go simple. No need for a complex story (many people's complaints). I say just go though the game, finding characters as you go, fighting enemies and bosses. Maybe have hidden levels where the hidden characters reside. Basically, just stay in form. The game itself played well, but could use some revisions (namely the camera). I liked it, but I wouldn't mind having it stay more simple.

[Flip]

Oct 27, 2008 18:10:25 GMT -5 Dances in Undergarments said:

I would make the game as close to traditional side scrolling beat-em-ups as possible. Levels would be set up to be replayed for high scores. Characters would start with a basic moveset and would be able to upgrade their moves (not just to their Smash movesets, but beyond - I could picture, for example, you being able to upgrade Mario's Bv to do some actual damage, and then eventually you could even have branching upgrades to instead turn it to Turbo FLUDD or Rocket FLUDD, or just a powerful regular FLUDD). Certain items would be equipped, rather than just picked up (though certain items would still be lying around).

Agreed. I think if it went all "River City Ransom"/"Battletoads"/"Guardian Heroes" it would be completely awesome. Scenario and plot are both very integral, but the beat-em-up gameplay was definitely lost.

...was that too semi-fanboyish and pretentious for any of you?

[Boo Destroyer]

Oct 27, 2008 19:21:12 GMT -5 Smashchu said:

I think the mode couldn't hurt to go simple. No need for a complex story (many people's complaints). I say just go though the game, finding characters as you go, fighting enemies and bosses. Maybe have hidden levels where the hidden characters reside. Basically, just stay in form. The game itself played well, but could use some revisions (namely the camera). I liked it, but I wouldn't mind having it stay more simple.

This...this basically sounds like the SSE as it already is in Brawl.

[Koopaul]

I would rather see an adventure game that had nothing to do with the mechanics of Smash Bros.

I mean those abilities were designed for fighting, not an adventure. It would be nice to have the gameplay Kirby-like but with missions like someone else mentioned.

Go around exploring enormous side-scrolling worlds finding Nintendo characters to help solve problems that only certain Nintendo heroes can solve. Like Mario is needed to defrost someone frozen, with his fireball ability. Or only Bowser can talk to and help Koopa Troopas that would normally attack other characters.

[8bitretroshit]

I'd rather have Smash Bros be the only Nintendo crossover game, it's not like you can tell a good story when most of the main characters hardly say a word. Keep it to senseless Nintendo violence I say.

Oh and the new Adventure Mode like feature in SSB4 (no doubt there will be one) should take place in stages/worlds based on Nintendo games, like Melee's. Generic forest and generic cave levels just aren't very exciting to me.

[Sqrt2]

Oct 27, 2008 18:29:34 GMT -5 Fryguy64 said:

Here's a question... Did anybody actually use up any of their stickers for the SSE? The only one I've used so far was the one that gives you more trophy stands. And even then I'm wondering if it was worth it.

Nope, never used a single one.

I'd like to see less cut-scenes as well as some kind of narration of the actual story. Also, the Great Maze felt tacked on (as well as being a scrappy level), so I would make sure that it wasn't repeated.

Oh, and an end boss who can't end you with one hit, would be nice.