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Post by Nester the Lark on Feb 19, 2009 18:35:47 GMT -5
Heh-heh. The Sonic threads are always the longest and, unfortunately, most volatile in the third party forum. They tend to have a cycle of arguing, hostility and finger-pointing. I'm sure there are others here who would rather go back to discussing what characters should be in the game, or what sports they'd like to see. I realize that's what led to the argument in the first place, but try not to take things so seriously. It's just a game, after all.  On a personal note, I consider myself a lax moderator, and in fact, I like to avoid using mod powers. But perhaps I should have stepped in and said something sooner. I apologize if I've been remiss. I guess I'm always hoping you guys will work things out yourselves. |
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Post by Sqrt2 on Feb 20, 2009 3:57:11 GMT -5
You do realise that half of those are skiing events, right? If this game was like that, I'd lose interest even faster than I did in the first one! |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 20, 2009 18:35:18 GMT -5
Just to say, it's not like you can do much else in the winter. Hockey would be a nice event. I don't like the idea of giving M&SaOG a sequel in general, though. Just seems like a shaky idea to me.
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 20, 2009 21:59:07 GMT -5
Well maybe they'll have more Dream events this time. If they had one for each event that would double everything.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 20, 2009 23:28:50 GMT -5
One can only hope, though it's still going to be a mini-game fest.
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Post by Game Guru on Feb 21, 2009 16:43:09 GMT -5
Meh... If Big can go from being crappy in Sonic Adventure 1 to being pretty cool in Sonic Chronicles, ANY Sonic character could be saved, even Silver.
Fact is, Sonic tends to get massive hate nowadays for friends, gimmicks, and being slowed down by obstacles, when even the GENESIS games had all three. Sonic CD introduced Amy Rose and had the whole time travel gimmick. Sonic 2 introduced Tails and had his NPC self as the gimmick, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles had the whole Lock-On Technology bit and Knuckles. For all their flaws, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 06 were better games than Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic Blast, Sonic 3D Blast, and Sonic Spinball, which were FROM the era where Sonic is best remembered. Sonic hasn't decayed in quality, people are just so nostalgic about Sonic that they cannot accurately judge the quality of the Post-Saturn games to the games Pre-Saturn.
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 21, 2009 17:29:37 GMT -5
I don't see how they can hate it for that when these days there aren't enough obstacles aside from bottomless pits, of which there are far too many for Sonic games.
I personally hate that they keep half-assing the usual Sonic gameplay portion and padding the rest of the game with stuff that may as well be another game entirely.
It isn't really the extra characters themselves that're the problem so much as it's the fact that they all wind up getting saddled with some sort of play style of a completely different genre.
Take Silver for example. I though the whole "use telekenesis to move stuff around" was a brilliant idea, but did they really need to shove in it as part of the then-next big Sonic game?
In Sonic 3 (& Knuckles), Sonic, Tails and Knuckles all played through the same levels, but their different abilities allowed them to access different areas that the other characters couldn't. What happened to this?
Now instead we have one character running through the usual Sonic levels, and the rest of the characters either treasure hunting, shooting, fishing, driving, fighting, and doing just about everything but running through Sonic levels.
Sega and Sonic Team's current method of operation is probably the worst game design philosophy ever, but the only reason it's there is because SegaSammy keeps forcing Sonic Team to churn out a new Sonic game every six months. The poor guys are starting to run out of ideas, and they don't have any opportunities to actually take their time and build on anything.
It's ridiculous, but it pays off for the big guys in charge. That's the sad truth.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Feb 21, 2009 23:20:55 GMT -5
You do realise that half of those are skiing events, right? If this game was like that, I'd lose interest even faster than I did in the first one! They aren't going to have every event on that list, though (for starters there are no female / male splits in the game). There are 8 categories of events in the first game (athletics, gymnastics, shooting, archery, rowing, aquatics, fencing, and table tennis). If you were to assume similar numbers here, you'd probably be looking at something along the lines of skiing, skating, snowboarding, hockey, curling (zomg wow), luge, bobsleigh and i dunno, maybe biatholon or skeleton or something. Just like how in the first game athletics and aquatics had a lot of events, skiing and skating events would make up a large proportion of these events too. |
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Post by Game Guru on Feb 22, 2009 0:49:47 GMT -5
I don't see how they can hate it for that when these days there aren't enough obstacles aside from bottomless pits, of which there are far too many for Sonic games. I personally hate that they keep half-assing the usual Sonic gameplay portion and padding the rest of the game with stuff that may as well be another game entirely. It isn't really the extra characters themselves that're the problem so much as it's the fact that they all wind up getting saddled with some sort of play style of a completely different genre. Take Silver for example. I though the whole "use telekenesis to move stuff around" was a brilliant idea, but did they really need to shove in it as part of the then-next big Sonic game? In Sonic 3 (& Knuckles), Sonic, Tails and Knuckles all played through the same levels, but their different abilities allowed them to access different areas that the other characters couldn't. What happened to this? Now instead we have one character running through the usual Sonic levels, and the rest of the characters either treasure hunting, shooting, fishing, driving, fighting, and doing just about everything but running through Sonic levels. Sega and Sonic Team's current method of operation is probably the worst game design philosophy ever, but the only reason it's there is because SegaSammy keeps forcing Sonic Team to churn out a new Sonic game every six months. The poor guys are starting to run out of ideas, and they don't have any opportunities to actually take their time and build on anything. It's ridiculous, but it pays off for the big guys in charge. That's the sad truth. Bottomless pits are just the new water levels for Sonic games. In addition, Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine rarely had a bottomless pit when it was common in the 2D games. While the change in playstyle would explain why Sonic Adventure 1, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Unleashed get hate, aren't the former two like the most beloved 3D Sonic games, and isn't the later one noted for actually getting the Pure Sonic Gameplay right? I mean Sonic Heroes, Shadow and Sonic 06 actually were strict in following the formula, and while Sonic Heroes might be considered a decent 3D Sonic Game if not for its gimmick it ripped off of Knuckles' Chaotix, both Shadow and Sonic 06 were horrid crap. Also it doesn't refute the fact that Sonic Blast WAS your standard 2D Sonic game, but more horrid than any of the 3D ones. In fact, wasn't Secret Rings praised a lot, and it went totally off the rails to what was expected from a 3D Sonic game? It's like Zelda in that the fanbase believes the recent game is crap and that the previous game was better, only instead of being compared to the second-to-last 3D Zelda game, it's being compared to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, which were in reality two games forming Voltron. |
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 22, 2009 1:29:20 GMT -5
Well for one, I don't think Adventure 1 & 2 recieved any hate. At the time... And Unleashed wasn't hated either, just looked on as mediocre or below average.
It was Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 06 that created this huge slump. And ofcourse it was until after those two games that people looked back and started to really complain about the Adventure titles.
Unleashed, while still not that good, is a step above those games, showing that Sonic may be slowly climbing out of that pit he dug. But in order to do that, SEGA will need to look back and not speed forward. Which is ironic in Sonic's case.
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 6:36:40 GMT -5
In Sonic 3 (& Knuckles), Sonic, Tails and Knuckles all played through the same levels, but their different abilities allowed them to access different areas that the other characters couldn't. What happened to this? The game takes roughly an hour to complete. Would you spend $50 on a game that takes an hour to complete these days? Of course not. You'd be a fool to. The fact is, when it comes to the traditional Sonic playstyle, it takes months to create a single stage that can be completed in 30 seconds. That's why we get treasure hunting, shooting and Werehog stages. They take just as long to make, but much longer to complete. Sega and Sonic Team's current method of operation is probably the worst game design philosophy ever, but the only reason it's there is because SegaSammy keeps forcing Sonic Team to churn out a new Sonic game every six months. The poor guys are starting to run out of ideas, and they don't have any opportunities to actually take their time and build on anything. You realise that the only games the core Sonic Team staff themselves have made in the last five years were Sonic '06 and Sonic Unleashed, right? All the GBA and DS games were by Dimps, the PSP ones by Backbone, Heroes and Shadow were by Sega Studios USA, and the Riders and Storybook games are by UGA, who have been absorbed into Sonic Team, but still work separately. So, although Sega release a lot of Sonic games, they aren't stretching their resources too thinly to do so. And releasing a lot of them isn't them being greedy, it's just that no matter what else they do, nothing they make without Sonic's face on sells in the US. Which is why the US version of Ultimate Mega Drive Collection has him on the cover and his name in the title. They need Sonic to stay afloat. |
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 22, 2009 9:56:16 GMT -5
The fact is, when it comes to the traditional Sonic playstyle, it takes months to create a single stage that can be completed in 30 seconds. That's why we get treasure hunting, shooting and Werehog stages. They take just as long to make, but much longer to complete.
Maybe that's a sign that my other gripe is a key problem. They put far too much emphasis on Sonic's speed, and not much emphasis on anything else.
Think about it, when Sonic debuted, he could do a little of everything in addition to running fast. He could jump, travel underwater, buzz through walls, and interact with things.
Nowadays they take everything and split it up amongst the different characters, resulting in a bunch of smaller half-assed games instead of one big robust game.
This has gotten rediculous to the point where Sonic's trademark Spin Dash and Spin Attack abilities have been replaced by a shallow Boosting mechanic, and all the levels are mostly just 30 second long quick time events.
And tell me Kirb, how is a short sweet game worse than a big ol' game padded full of irrevelevent crap in an attempt to make it longer? They could very well make an elongated game about just Sonic if they'd follow a few other guidelines.
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 10:20:53 GMT -5
Maybe that's a sign that my other gripe is a key problem. They put far too much emphasis on Sonic's speed, and not much emphasis on anything else. Think about it, when Sonic debuted, he could do a little of everything in addition to running fast. He could jump, travel underwater, buzz through walls, and interact with things. ...I wasn't aware that he could no longer jump. Honestly, the only one of those things he doesn't still do (at least in 3D) is travel underwater, but does that really make a difference? Sonic can't swim, so going underwater doesn't change the gameplay for him at all. And tell me Kirb, how is a short sweet game worse than a big ol' game padded full of irrevelevent crap in an attempt to make it longer? Look at Mirror's Edge - a short but fantastic game, but because of it's shortness, people are always complaining about having to pay regular retail price for it. Why? It cost as much to make as most of the longer games. Sonic and the Black Knight focuses only on Sonic gameplay, and already reviewers are praising it, but complaining about how short it is. The lesson is, you can't please people with a short game these days. Unless you're Nintendo, at least. |
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Post by TV Eye on Feb 22, 2009 11:21:18 GMT -5
Think about it, when Sonic debuted, he could do a little of everything in addition to running fast. He could jump, travel underwater, buzz through walls, and interact with things. ...I wasn't aware that he could no longer jump. Honestly, the only one of those things he doesn't still do (at least in 3D) is travel underwater, but does that really make a difference? Sonic can't swim, so going underwater doesn't change the gameplay for him at all. Well, he could go underwater in Sonic Adventure. You'd also still have the suspense music when you'd been in their for a long time. And ofcourse it was until after those two games that people looked back and started to really complain about the Adventure titles. Who complains about the Adventure games? They were so good! |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 12:32:48 GMT -5
What, again?
I reiterate: Recent Sonic games are disliked for excessive plot and constant roster revamps, which is why the Mario series is still popular: It's the same idea as before: Save the princess, beat the bad guy, rescue the kingdom.
And another thing: I want to see hockey in this new game.
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