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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 12:43:39 GMT -5
What, again? I reiterate: Recent Sonic games are disliked for excessive plot and constant roster revamps, which is why the Mario series is still popular: It's the same idea as before: Save the princess, beat the bad guy, rescue the kingdom. Uhh... no, Sonic games are disliked for poor programming and bad gameplay decisions. Plot and lovable characters are the reason even the worst Sonic games remain best-sellers. At work we don't even sell Donkey Kong games - they aren't popular enough. But we carry every Sonic game for current systems (including Sonic '06), because they sell quickly. EDIT: Also, "roster revamps"? What? XD |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 13:02:32 GMT -5
I'd have expanded, but it's still part of the reason.
Well that, and recent DK games have been, you know, spin-off filler.
Roster revamps. Every game adds new characters and it's gotten to the point where it's just ridiculous.
Also, hockey. Discuss.
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 14:00:07 GMT -5
Roster revamps. Every game adds new characters and it's gotten to the point where it's just ridiculous. What series isn't this true of? |
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Post by Manspeed on Feb 22, 2009 14:15:28 GMT -5
...I wasn't aware that he could no longer jump. Honestly, the only one of those things he doesn't still do (at least in 3D) is travel underwater, but does that really make a difference? Sonic can't swim, so going underwater doesn't change the gameplay for him at all.
My point was that I'd like to be able to do more with Sonic than just boost and pull off quicktime events. I know you like Sonic Unleashed's Sonic parts, but I think they're kinda shallow. It would've helped if instead of the Werehog they just gave us slower-paced, shorter Sonic levels or something.
Look at Mirror's Edge - a short but fantastic game, but because of it's shortness, people are always complaining about having to pay regular retail price for it. Why? It cost as much to make as most of the longer games. Sonic and the Black Knight focuses only on Sonic gameplay, and already reviewers are praising it, but complaining about how short it is.
The only solution is for these companies to sell their shorter games at a lower price. This one technically isn't Sega's fault, but if they wanted to get around the problem of making the game longer, they could instead not make Sonic go so goddamn fast and put him in slightly less long stages. Wouldn't that be simple enough?
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 14:25:53 GMT -5
Okay, but you asked for it. Can't say I didn't try.
Not counting non-recurring characters? Shock, Mario, or at least the main series. Bowser Jr. was the last character to come back, before him I think it was Yoshi. Zelda's similar, because you get few characters who come back, last three were Vaati, Tingle, and Dark Link. Metroid has always been minimalist, except Hunters, it's always been just Samus and several one-off enemies with a couple exceptions (Ridley, for example.)
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 14:36:59 GMT -5
Okay, but you asked for it. Can't say I didn't try. Not counting non-recurring characters? Shock, Mario, or at least the main series. Bowser Jr. was the last character to come back, before him I think it was Yoshi. Zelda's similar, because you get few characters who come back, last three were Vaati, Tingle, and Dark Link. Metroid has always been minimalist, except Hunters, it's always been just Samus and several one-off enemies with a couple exceptions (Ridley, for example.) If you're only counting main-series Mario games, at least do the same for Sonic. The only recurring characters in the main non-spinoff series are Sonic, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow and Rouge. I'll give you Metroid, but Mario introduced more new recurring characters just last year than Sonic - Rosalina and Luma over Sonic's... uh, nobody. The difference is that Mario and Zelda will usually take a handful of recurring characters and then toss in loads and loads of one-shots we never see again, where Sonic will fill it's roles with characters it already has, and maybe add one or two new faces. In the long run, what this means is that, while we see more of the Sonic characters, the actual series cast is less than one tenth the size of Mario's. And that's just counting characters who've been playable. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 14:50:33 GMT -5
a) Only counting recurring characters, so Mario may have an INCREDIBLY huge character pool, but he has a miniscule RECURRING character pool.
b) What ISN'T main-series Sonic? I'll figure it out from there.
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 15:02:54 GMT -5
a) Only counting recurring characters, so Mario may have an INCREDIBLY huge character pool, but he has a miniscule RECURRING character pool. b) What ISN'T main-series Sonic? I'll figure it out from there. Uhh... games that're spinoffs. Riders, Rush, Rivals, Secret Rings, Heroes, Shadow... the stuff that's radically different. According to Sega, the main Sonic series goes Sonic 1 (Genesis) > Sonic 2 (Genesis) > Sonic 3 > Sonic & Knuckles > Sonic Adventure > Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic '06 > Sonic Unleashed. To be honest, I'd rather have a big cast of recurring characters for a small overall cast than a ridiculous overall cast with only a handful of recurring characters. The entire cast of playable Sonic characters is listed on the official site with stats and bios for each one, something Nintendo would never be able to do for Mario, because the number of characters they have is just too huge. Do you really think that's better? I don't. If Sega only brought back, say, Sonic, Tails and Eggman for each game, and filled the rest up with brand new characters that they never used again... would you really like that more? Or would you just complain even more about it? I'm willing to bet on the latter. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 15:13:06 GMT -5
Uh, dude, Sonic Rush plays the same as the 2D Sonic series. It's hard to call it a spin-off when the engine reminds you of an older game. Riders and Shadow I'll back you on, while Rivals, Secret Rings, and Heroes I still haven't had a chance to play. Also, I'd like a source on that main series list.
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 15:21:58 GMT -5
It's difficult to give you a source on the main series thing, since the only reason I know that's the official list is through conversations with ArchangelUK, who works for Sega (and runs the English official Sonic website). But honestly, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? Just take all the games that were made by Sonic Team themselves, and you basically have the main series.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 15:53:25 GMT -5
Well, like my food, if I don't know the source, I don't buy it.
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 15:58:31 GMT -5
So... you don't buy that the main series is the games that Sonic Team made? That's pretty good evidence on it's own right there.
But even if you don't, my point still stands - in fact, Mario Kart Wii alone has the same number of playable characters as the Sonic series as a whole (including spinoffs) does.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Feb 22, 2009 17:06:44 GMT -5
No, I don't buy that your source works for Sega, and therefore only treat the list he gave you as "Possible," not "Certain."
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Post by kirbychu on Feb 22, 2009 17:18:58 GMT -5
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Post by Koopaul on Feb 22, 2009 17:49:04 GMT -5
I think as far as Mario goes, he has about 8 or 10 main recurring characters. The thing is, they don't all appear in the same game (unless its a sports or party game) These characters will individually pop-up in different games, or star in their own games. This is where Sonic is different, they seem to have been including large amounts of their main characters in every game instead of including certain characters in every other game. Like Knucles will appear in this game, and Shadow will appear in that game.
There's no problem with having a large cast of characters, it's just when you include them all at once... well that spot-light gets cramped.
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