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Post by Johans Nidorino on Mar 29, 2009 21:02:41 GMT -5
I don't know which timeline Link to the Past connects to. But I do know that all Zelda games root from Ocarina of Time. Some prefer to place The Minish Cap before Ocarina of Time because it could have started the tradition of wearing the hat and there was no Hero of Time in the legend of the Picori, but a Hero of Men. |
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Post by Koopaul on Mar 29, 2009 21:56:19 GMT -5
Hm, I think its just an alternate series. The reason he wore that hat in OoT was because of the Kokiriki.
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Post by Shrikeswind on Mar 29, 2009 22:04:05 GMT -5
That's true, Johans, and since Ganondorf doesn't make any appearance in Minish Cap but does in the chronologically later stories....
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BeamClaws
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Post by BeamClaws on Mar 30, 2009 15:34:27 GMT -5
Hm, I think its just an alternate series. The reason he wore that hat in OoT was because of the Kokiriki. I'm not sure that OoT was the first. I personally think that the first Zelda was the first, because it stared the whole Triforce thing. Right after that is Zelda 2. But I do know that OoT split the timeline: When he traveled to the future and saved everybody, Hyrule was saved. When he put the Master Sword back in, he walked away, and as it says in Wind Waker: They prayed for a savior, but no one came, because Link was in Termina. |
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Post by Dasher Misire on Mar 30, 2009 18:09:46 GMT -5
OOT was confirmed to be the first Zelda game as of 1998. Minish is possibly earlier than that and no confirmation has been made yet.
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Post by Koopaul on Mar 30, 2009 21:19:52 GMT -5
But I do know that OoT split the timeline: When he traveled to the future and saved everybody, Hyrule was saved. When he put the Master Sword back in, he walked away, and as it says in Wind Waker: They prayed for a savior, but no one came, because Link was in Termina. He wasn't just in Termina, he was in a totally different timeline. Twilight Princess is in the Majora's Mask timeline, and Hyrule was fine when Link left. I assume at some point he returned to Hyrule after looking for Navi. |
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Post by parrothead on Mar 30, 2009 22:23:47 GMT -5
When does Link's Awakening take place at?
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Post by Johans Nidorino on Mar 30, 2009 23:44:15 GMT -5
The Super Game Boy book states that the Link in Link's Awakening came from an early adventure in Hyrule, and the manual says this: Though you fufilled the Hyrulian prophecy of the Legendary Hero and destroyed the evil tyrant Ganon, the land of Hyrule enjoyed only a precarious peace. "Who knows what threats may arise from Ganon's ashes?" the restless people murmured as they knitted their brows and shook their heads. Ever vigilant, you decided to journey away from Hyrule on a quest for enlightenment, in search of wisdom that would make you better able to withstand the next threat to your homeland. So it's clear that Link's Awakening happened after one or several previous adventures. Link's Awakening had many common features with A Link to the Past that one can interpret as reutilization, but they also can make you think it's a sequel or that, at least, it happened after A Link to the Past. This includes the fact that one of the Nightmares is a silhouette of Agahnim and another is a silhouette of Ganon as seen in A Link to the Past, and the two of them use some of the abilities seen in A Link to the Past. |
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Post by Shrikeswind on Mar 31, 2009 0:07:42 GMT -5
I prefer to put it as a sequel to LttP for various reasons, one of which being partially based on that quote Johans posted and partially based on the trend that, when a game doesn't feature Ganon/Ganondorf but the previous one did, it's a sequel to the previous one, for example Phantom Hourglass. Since Link's Awakening is Zelda 4 and doesn't feature (real) Ganon, by my logic it'd be Game 2 in the LttP series.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Mar 31, 2009 6:12:52 GMT -5
I'm still not clear when the original LoZ and AoL fall on the current timeline. They're not tied to any of them. There's no Master Sword, but they mention the original Princess Zelda (of whom the legend is named) who sleeps in a temple in North Hyrule. The Triforce is discovered and shattered into pieces.
So ALttP comes along, presumably a prequel. The Master Sword is found (and then left in the forest to sleep... forever!) The origins of the Triforce and Ganon are told, and both have been locked in the Golden Land / Dark World since the Imprisoning War. The sages and so forth are introduced. There is no storyline connection to the original games.
LA followed ALttP, but because it took place in an island constructed of dreams, people have argued that it could go anywhere in the timeline. Well, I argue that it follows ALttP, because at the time it couldn't have followed anything else. Also... the Link in LA and the Link in ALttP are clearly one and the same. Look at them!
Then OoT came along and told the story of the Imprisoning War, the origin of Ganon and the discovery of both the Master Sword and the Triforce. The gateway to the Golden Land is discovered. Ganon is then sealed in the Golden Land by the sages. Then there's a weird time paradox - two futures: One future where Ganon is sealed away and Link disappears, and one where Link returns to his childhood where (presumably) they managed to prevent Ganon from taking over. This is immediately followed by MM, where Link goes searching for Navi in a parallel world.
OoT really messed everything up. The Zelda timeline suddenly became a hot topic, and the split-timeline has been confirmed by Eiji Aonuma.
OoT CLEARLY tells the backstory of ALttP, which means squeezing any games between the two would damage the story.
Next up is TWW. Ganon reappears and attacks Hyrule, the Hero of Time fails to appear (which could feasibly happen in both timelines), and Hyrule is drowned under the Great Sea by the Sages and the King of Hyrule (who holds the Triforce). A young boy named Link gathers the Triforce of Courage, joins with a pirate named Tetra who turns out to be Zelda, collects the Master Sword from undersea Hyrule and defeats Ganondorf. Hyrule is permanently flooded by the King, Ganondorf is turned to stone at the bottom of the ocean, and Link and Tetra sail off to find a new land to call Hyrule. Phantom Hourglass continues the story.
Now the problem here is continuity of landmarks. OoT and ALttP (and even the original LoZ) feature many of the same landmarks, which means this would have to exist on a different timeline to all the other games in the series.
Which brings us to TP. The design of this game ties OoT to ALttP, acting as a missing link between the two. In this timeline, Ganon is banished by the sages, but brings himself back via the Shadow Realm and an unstable villain named Zant. The Master Sword is where Link left it in the ruins of the Temple of Time (in the middle of a forest), Hyrule Castle is now closer in appearance to ALttP, and so on. However, having Ganon appear means that TP can't take place between OoT and ALttP without completely wrecking the storyline ties between those two games.
Then you chuck the Oracles and Four Swords series in there, none of which make any sense in the grand scheme of things. The Oracles have a revived Ganon, the Four Swords games have their own villain plus a revived Ganon... they're not connected to any of the above.
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You could almost say that if you took OoT as a starting point, LoZ, ALttP, TWW and TP could be the next game in the series. Hell, even the Oracles could be next. There are occasional similarities between eacgh
Which leads me to a new theory. Which is that Eiji Aonuma was mistaken when he said "split-timeline", and instead meant "parallel worlds".
Take OoT+MM as the shared starting point... (the Imprisoning War). From that, you have multiple stories told over one or more games, all branching from the one source.
Just a thought...
FSA could then be one of these paths, and its own origin story is told in Minish Cap (which I don't think needs to sit before or after OoT specifically, so for the sake of my argument we can just say it comes after).
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Post by TV Eye on Mar 31, 2009 6:38:09 GMT -5
So ALttP comes along, presumably a prequel. The Master Sword is found (and then left in the forest to sleep... forever!) The origins of the Triforce and Ganon are told, and both have been locked in the Golden Land / Dark World since the Imprisoning War. The sages and so forth are introduced. There is no storyline connection to the original games. ... OoT CLEARLY tells the backstory of ALttP, which means squeezing any games between the two would damage the story. Actually, if you pay attention to clues, this is how it goes (in my opinion). Link found the Master Sword in the Temple of Time (Ocarina of Time), the Temple of Time is next found decaying in the Lost Woods still housing the Master Sword (Twilight Princess), finally, the Temple of Time has completely decayed but the Master Sword is still in the Lost Woods (A Link to the Past). |
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Post by Nester the Lark on Mar 31, 2009 12:38:17 GMT -5
In case you guys missed it, GameTrailers took a stab at explaining the split-timeline theory in their Zelda retrospective from a couple of years back. You can see it here. |
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BeamClaws
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Post by BeamClaws on Mar 31, 2009 21:52:33 GMT -5
I'm still not clear when the original LoZ and AoL fall on the current timeline. They're not tied to any of them. There's no Master Sword, but they mention the original Princess Zelda (of whom the legend is named) who sleeps in a temple in North Hyrule. The Triforce is discovered and shattered into pieces. Now the problem here is continuity of landmarks. OoT and ALttP (and even the original LoZ) feature many of the same landmarks, which means this would have to exist on a different timeline to all the other games in the series. Then you chuck the Oracles and Four Swords series in there, none of which make any sense in the grand scheme of things. The Oracles have a revived Ganon, the Four Swords games have their own villain plus a revived Ganon... they're not connected to any of the above. I think Loz and AoL are one of the earliest: they introduce the Triforce. I also think that Landmarks shouldn't be used to support canonocity. And in the Oracle games, the "revived Ganon" was, and I quote, a "Mindless raging Ganon". It wasn't an actual revival. Just Ganon's body going on a violent rampage. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Apr 1, 2009 3:46:54 GMT -5
Oh indeed! That was how I initially read into it as well. But then it means that between the Imprisoning War where Ganon is sealed in the Golden Land by the Sages (OoT) and Ganon escaping from the Golden Land by breaking the Sages' seal (ALttP), Ganon escaped another time, was banished by the Sages, took over Hyrule and then was killed by Link in Hyrule Field (TP).
So Twilight Princess pretty much stops ALttP from happening. That's why I'm warming to the idea that all of the story arcs fan out from OoT. And I shall call this new theory... the FAN THEORY! (Lolzo!)
Not really. In LoZ, Zelda already has the Triforce of Wisdom, and Ganon already has the Triforce of Power, while the Triforce of Courage is sealed in the Great Temple (AoL). Ganon is already in Beast form.
OoT, at least, has to come before that.
I agree for the most part... but I'm not talking about where landmarks sit on the map. I'm talking about obvious things - like if TWW destroyed Hyrule forever, then all the other games that feature locations from OoT (Death Mountain / nearly everything in TP) can't come after TWW.
But yes, I've seen people try and explain the canon by saying "but Kakariko Village / Lost Woods / Hyrule Castle is in a different place!", but that's when you have to step back and remember that gameplay will (and should always) take precedence over storyline or continuity.
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Post by Koopaul on Apr 1, 2009 9:06:35 GMT -5
You know I'm not so certain Ganon was dead for good in TP.
Even though Hyrule was destroyed, it makes more sense for ALttP to take place after WW because Ganon was imprisoned ONLY in the timeline where Link was an adult. That is the timeline that the Wind Waker takes place after.
Ganondorf was never imprisoned in the Young Link timeline. Which Twilight Princess is said to take place after.
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