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Post by Game Guru on Sept 13, 2007 16:19:14 GMT -5
Speaking of which, how much in-game text DO the two StarTropics games have, because it could indeed be possible to translate them to Japanese for something they never had.  Either way, I don't get how someone can say no Japan-Only characters, and surport Lucas. Mother 3 may be kickass, but it's not like "Mother 2" was US exclusive or stuck on the Game Boy Advance with no chance of an English release, unlike Earthbound getting rereleased and Earthbound Zero being translated complete FOR a release. Besides, Ness also looks like Ninten, and Lucas does not look like either. My own interpretation of the Franklin Badge's Q&A... "Q: Why does it say MOTHER on this item?" "A: Because EARTHBOUND wouldn't fit." |
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GenG
Chibi-Robo
Posts: 307
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Post by GenG on Sept 13, 2007 18:27:33 GMT -5
You know a lot of Nintendo characters. At this point if you see someone you'll probobly know where their from. It's not the same for everyone else. Sure, it canh be fun to learn someone new, but also frustrating. Frusrating because a character was added you've never heard of, instead of one you might have. Frustrating? Why? I have access to the same information as the rest of people. They'll better cut Ness from the roster, he's from a game not released in Europe, so someone may be frustrated. But I bet someone around here have played Earthbound in a legit way, so the views of these two players collide. Knowing characters is ambiguous no matter how you put it. There are people who didn't knew about Ice Climbers, but others did know them. The same with Ness, Pit, Game & Watch, Marth. I think a lot of people didn't knew about Ike just until he was revealed. The point is that someone within the Smash fanbase can enjoy these characters, even if they are in other part of the world, just like my neighbour didn't knew about Ice Climbers, being a game released in Europe and that. Back in Melee, I bet anyone wanted Dedede, Metaknight, Pit or Wario before a blue haired generic anime guy. But then, people liked that character they never heard about! And then the interest in that particular franchise grew. At the end, it's not cutting popular characters for lesser characters. We can conclude that most if not all the popular characters are in the game already. It's about adding great and potential characters that 500k people may enjoy in Japan while being interesting for players from overseas. The MOTHER 3 fan will have to keep playing the same "STOP TEH INVADERZ" hobo from Melee instead reliving the moments of the last game of the franchise he bought and finished 4 times in a row. Is just unfair that those people can enjoy this fanservice game because someone in another country they don't care about didn't wanted to release the game because their close minded view. The guys in the other country even don't know characters that were released there so I don't see any problems. |
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Post by Hiker of Games on Sept 13, 2007 18:56:24 GMT -5
Incidentally, Pit is probably more popular overseas than in Japan anyways, given that they never received the sequel.
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Post by Game Guru on Sept 13, 2007 21:52:47 GMT -5
He's got a point... We actually BOUGHT Kid Icarus when it came out. Speaking of Japan-Only games, apparently Europe just got Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) and Mario's Super Picross today as part of a Hanabi Festival... Lucky stiffs...  |
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Post by Smashchu on Sept 13, 2007 21:54:40 GMT -5
You know a lot of Nintendo characters. At this point if you see someone you'll probobly know where their from. It's not the same for everyone else. Sure, it canh be fun to learn someone new, but also frustrating. Frusrating because a character was added you've never heard of, instead of one you might have. Frustrating? Why? I have access to the same information as the rest of people. They'll better cut Ness from the roster, he's from a game not released in Europe, so someone may be frustrated. But I bet someone around here have played Earthbound in a legit way, so the views of these two players collide. Knowing characters is ambiguous no matter how you put it. There are people who didn't knew about Ice Climbers, but others did know them. The same with Ness, Pit, Game & Watch, Marth. I think a lot of people didn't knew about Ike just until he was revealed. The point is that someone within the Smash fanbase can enjoy these characters, even if they are in other part of the world, just like my neighbour didn't knew about Ice Climbers, being a game released in Europe and that. If the game is overloaded with Japanese only characters (which some here would want) than it becomes less fun for those who have never heard of said character. Sure, you can say that no one heard of Pit, but at least his game came out in all regions. Thus giving people a chances to know him, expecially as his game is now on the Vitrual console. The best example is Capcom X Namco. The game wasn't so hot. The reason was because the game used too many obscured Capcom characters, and too few known ones. As such, it didn't sell well and never got released in the US. While Smash Fans may be happy, you need to appeal to all players. So, there needs to be a balance of popular characters, to not popular ones. As such, too many Japanese only characters would not help. You may nopt feel this way, but if there are characters people never heard of, then they get put off. In Super Smash Bros, I never heard of Link, Samus, C. Falcon or Ness. But, there were still many characters I knew. In Melee, they added Bowser, Zelda, Ice Climbers and Peach. Most Nintendo fans would know 3 of them, and more knowlegable would know all 4. Even in the hidden characters, most people probobly never heard of Marth and Roy, and that would be about it. The Smash games have always hit the right balance, and Brawl will do the same. While not as well known, most should have heard of Diddy, Pokemon Trainer, Samus without her suit (it's still Samus) and Wario. You might know Ike and Meta-Knight as well. The only out there one is Pit. There is a balance. It's to keep evferyone happy. Trust me, it's standard buisness practice. Adding too many unknown gfaces turns off potential buyers, and can intimidate them in a way. If they add too many unknow characters, this will alienate gamers, and wouldn't make the game as loved or timeless. Again, read balance. I discussed this in my earlier part. Or we could add lesser known characters from all regions. Truth is, the popular will out weigh the obscured everytime. It should be like that. They should still achknowledge other characters, but the game can't be based around it. Many people here what that to be true but that just won't happen, and probobly isn't practical. Interestiong, but if there are oddles of Japanese only characters, it will bore the player, as he continues to unlock characters he'll never know. The best solution is what Masamune said. Takamaru/Mike would work great, or at least a character who is more popular here (like Little Mac) The MOTHER 3 fan will have to keep playing the same "STOP TEH INVADERZ" hobo from Melee instead reliving the moments of the last game of the franchise he bought and finished 4 times in a row. Is just unfair that those people can enjoy this fanservice game because someone in another country they don't care about didn't wanted to release the game because their close minded view. The guys in the other country even don't know characters that were released there so I don't see any problems.[/quote] I'm a bit lost. Did you mean Mother 2. Beucase you said " Mother 3 fans will have to keep playing the same "SOP TEH INVADERZ" hobo from Melee instead". Not sure what you are getting at. Oh wait, I see it now First, if you want the reason Mother 3 wasn't released here is becuase Mother doesn't sell well to begin with. 500K? More like 300K. Even then, Ness is more popular. Of course, thje reason they could get away with adding Lucas is that Earthbound/Mother fans pretty much know who he is, and either have the game, are getting the game, or are waiting for the English mod. The idea was to add characters popular in both areas of the world. Ike was the first FE character to have worldwide popularity. Diddy was high on the Japanese and US charts, as is Ridley and Krystal. For the most part, even without Japanese only characters, Japanese players are getting what they want. One of the reason some games don't come here is due to low sales in Japan. |
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Post by TrustTheFungus on Sept 14, 2007 1:09:26 GMT -5
If the game is overloaded with Japanese only characters (which some here would want) than it becomes less fun for those who have never heard of said character. Who in this topic has said they want it overloaded with Japan-Only characters? I'm assuming most people are thinking around the same number as Melee. What's wrong with 1-3 Japan-Only characters in a game with 30-40 to choose from? Anyone who gets upset about that isn't going to be happy with anything. |
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GenG
Chibi-Robo
Posts: 307
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Post by GenG on Sept 14, 2007 4:26:41 GMT -5
If the game is overloaded with Japanese only characters (which some here would want) than it becomes less fun for those who have never heard of said character. Sure, you can say that no one heard of Pit, but at least his game came out in all regions. Thus giving people a chances to know him, expecially as his game is now on the Vitrual console. The best example is Capcom X Namco. The game wasn't so hot. The reason was because the game used too many obscured Capcom characters, and too few known ones. As such, it didn't sell well and never got released in the US. While Smash Fans may be happy, you need to appeal to all players. So, there needs to be a balance of popular characters, to not popular ones. As such, too many Japanese only characters would not help. There isn't too many wanted Japanese characters. The game will have everyone we want (example: Dedede, Krystal, Ridley, Olimar, etc.), but the proportion of Japanese characters are incredibly low. The most common names are Marth, Takamaru, Lucas, Masked Man, Stafy and Sukapon. If the game will have around 40 characters, 4 or 5 Japanese characters wouldn't hurt anyone. There will be Japanese trophies, ATs or music, or else... I'll feel pity for Japanese players. I'm a bit lost. Did you mean Mother 2. Beucase you said " Mother 3 fans will have to keep playing the same "SOP TEH INVADERZ" hobo from Melee instead". Not sure what you are getting at. Oh wait, I see it now First, if you want the reason Mother 3 wasn't released here is becuase Mother doesn't sell well to begin with. 500K? More like 300K. Even then, Ness is more popular. Of course, thje reason they could get away with adding Lucas is that Earthbound/Mother fans pretty much know who he is, and either have the game, are getting the game, or are waiting for the English mod. Well, the point is that from a Smash perspective, if Lucas doesn't enter the Brawl, we'll have to play again the uninteresting and outdated MOTHER 2 events and scenarios, while most franchises have evolved to their most recent titles and games. I've played MOTHER 3 already, but if Lucas helps the cause of making the game available to everybody, it should be done. Yes, Pit is old, but is new and fresh to Smash. We've playing with Ness since SSB64, and he isn't the absolute main character in the MOTHER franchise, just like Marth could get replaced by Sigurd, Roy or Ike. |
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Post by Smashchu on Sept 14, 2007 6:02:08 GMT -5
Who in this topic has said they want it overloaded with Japan-Only characters? I'm assuming most people are thinking around the same number as Melee. What's wrong with 1-3 Japan-Only characters in a game with 30-40 to choose from? Anyone who gets upset about that isn't going to be happy with anything. It has been assumed. Fliptroppa said that he's said Sakurai said fewer Japanese only characters.However this is one example, but knowing some members here, they'd love to see a good deal of obscured characters. Nothing against them or obscured characters, but I don't see it happening, and, again, I explained it in my last post. And by doing that you leave American/PAL plahyers in the cold. You basiccly do to those players which you try to avoid to the Japanese. This is Sakurai's point. By limiting region only characters, and focusing on worldwide popular characters, everyone will be happy. I do agree. My point in the post was to give a reason why they could add Lucas, but would avoid other Japanese only characters. |
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Post by kirbychu on Sept 14, 2007 6:10:40 GMT -5
I can see both sides of this argument... On the one hand, I'd like more obscure characters. A lot of games that I love now (EarthBound, Metroid, Ice Climber) I never would've discovered if they hadn't appeared in Smash Bros.
But, on the other hand, I don't want Lucas to replace Ness. I love EarthBound, and I can't play Mother 3. Hopefully Starmen.net's translation will change that, but it's still not done. I prefer to see characters that I can possibly find out about if I so choose.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Sept 14, 2007 6:30:51 GMT -5
You hear exactly the same arguments for old characters as well. "Why put them in the game if nobody knows who they are?"
We're gonna cover some old arguments, but here we go:
All of Nintendo's key characters were in the original SSB. Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Link. Fox and Captain Falcon had appeared in recent releases, but would have been obscure aside from that. Samus hadn't appeared in a game for years, and so was relatively obscure. Ness was completely obscure - known only to a handful of players and appearing in just one game.
Melee brought back all of the above, plus Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario, Zelda, Young Link, Ganondorf, Pichu, Mewtwo and Falco - all secondary characters in their respective series. The new main characters were Ice Climbers, Marth, Roy and Mr. Game & Watch. All of them were - of necessity - obscure.
The choice is obvious, either give people popular secondary characters (rather than heroes), or give people older and more obscure characters. Or option 3 - give people brand new characters released since the last SSB game.
So for Brawl we now have Ike, Pokemon Trainer and Wario filling the popular main character slots. Diddy Kong and Meta-Knight fill the popular secondary character slots. And standing alone, Pit fills the obscure quota exclusively.
The weird thing is - Samus, Captain Falcon, Fox, Ness, Ice Climbers, Marth, Mr. Game & Watch and (to a lesser extent) Roy are no longer obscure! Everyone knows who they are now, partially through Smash and partially through receiving new games in recent years. And of those confirmed so far, only Samus, Fox and Ice Climbers are definitely returning.
So why are you so bloody scared of obscure, Japan-only characters? There aren't ANY at the moment! You sound like you have this great fear that Nintendo will fill the game with obscurity to please the fanboys. Fact of the matter is, they don't have a choice! And they didn't have a choice when they made Melee either. They have very little else to draw on. All of the existing Smash characters are all of Nintendo's popular characters, or ones have become more popular in the last 6-8 years.
I'm more afraid that it will be filled with popular secondary characters, as at the moment there's hardly any obscure characters filling playable spots - Pit aside! And as you say - he was a worldwide release.
So stop acting like bringing in a couple of Japan only characters would spell doom and gloom for the game. That argument is not based on any kind of fact.
AND GIVE ME TAKAMARU!!
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Post by Smashchu on Sept 14, 2007 7:08:36 GMT -5
I can see both sides of this argument... On the one hand, I'd like more obscure characters. A lot of games that I love now (EarthBound, Metroid, Ice Climber) I never would've discovered if they hadn't appeared in Smash Bros. But, on the other hand, I don't want Lucas to replace Ness. I love EarthBound, and I can't play Mother 3. Hopefully Starmen.net's translation will change that, but it's still not done. I prefer to see characters that I can possibly find out about if I so choose. I'd rather have Ness actually, but I've come to a relization that that might not just be the case. Whioe there is no hard evidence, there is Starmen.net. I know that if Starmen.net wants to, they could find anything if it's related to Earthbound/Mother. Scared. No. I would probobly love anyone they throw in there. I am, in a way, playing devil's advocater, but truth is, I am responding more to the over qwant of Japanese only characters. It's fine. Not like anyone is seggesting Petey Pirahna or Daisy, but I'm just offering the side of why it wouldn't be good, or why Sakurai is staying away from it. Or, at least that's what he said. Like I said ealier, worst case, we have Lucas. Best, we get Takamaru. He has a shot. |
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Post by Sqrt2 on Sept 14, 2007 7:50:57 GMT -5
Speaking of Japan-Only games, apparently Europe just got Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) Actually SMBJ has been released in Europe ( on the Super Mario All-Stars cartridge, under the name SMB: The Lost Levels). |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Sept 14, 2007 7:57:58 GMT -5
Speaking of Japan-Only games, apparently Europe just got Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) Actually SMBJ has been released in Europe ( on the Super Mario All-Stars cartridge, under the name SMB: The Lost Levels). Erm... I think you're confused. Super Mario Bros. 2 (the Japanese version) has been released in Europe as Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels - but it's the original Famicom Disk System game under a different name. That is all. I am downloading it tonight  |
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GenG
Chibi-Robo
Posts: 307
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Post by GenG on Sept 14, 2007 8:26:42 GMT -5
By limiting region only characters, and focusing on worldwide popular characters, everyone will be happy. Not everyone. If I were an avid MOTHER 3 fan, I would be pissed if there isn't any kind of M3 content in Brawl. I am, actually, but to an extent... See, the two possible scenarios: A) Lucas in Brawl. Japanese: "OMG LUCAS IS IN BRAWL" Western: "Well, it's a good character, it has good moves, etc." B) Lucas isn't in Brawl Japanese: "Oh, why? MOTHER 3 was perfect for Brawl" Western: "..." There's no good side about this, really. Nobody wins if Lucas isn't in Brawl, just a loss for everyone, since the ones that don't know him won't gain or loss anything. They can either add Ness or Lucas, or just Lucas, but the MOTHER 2 fanbase in the US is so small that they already know about Lucas, and if Lucas is in the game, he should be the absolute main MOTHER character, focusing in MOTHER 3. Even NOA doesn't care anymore for Earthbound. |
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Post by Flip on Sept 14, 2007 8:27:37 GMT -5
Fry has been hittin the bowl a little hard again... ;D
Look: they have already clearly added characters that would be considered "obscure" or "non-Western" to the series. There is no reason not to continue that practice. And characters like Takamaru or Sukapon really are not too far-out for Wester gamers to get their head around. If it were like... Hamtaro or Chalvo... people would flip out. But a Samurai and a Limbless Robot? Those are kooky enough to work.
Don't forget that Ouendan sold better in the States than it actually did in Japan. The video game market is riddled with people who are obsessed with Japan.
oh, and... MIKE JONES FOR BRAWL!!!
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