Update #94: Lyn

[kirbychu]

geng said:

See, the two possible scenarios:

You forgot scenario 3.

Japan: "Yay, Lucas is in Brawl!"
West: "Hey, they took out Ness! He was my favourite! And who's this blonde Little Rascals character? Boo!"

[GenG]

But everyone must to do sacrifices. The clones are likely to be cut, Marth may be cut. Lucas was about to replace Ness for Melee but MOTHER 3 was cancelled.

Lucas is very similar to Ness, as Ness was the generic MOTHER hero, nothing too special. They have the same feel. I haven't seen people bitching because this Zelda has a different dress and is a brunette. This is the same...

[kirbychu]

geng said:

Lucas is very similar to Ness, as Ness was the generic MOTHER hero, nothing too special. They have the same feel. I haven't seen people gonzoing because this Zelda has a different dress and is a brunette. This is the same...

It's not the same... She's still Zelda, and has still appeared in all regions. I just don't think it's fair to take out a well-known character and replace them with somebody most of the world is never going to see elsewhere.

Ness may not be largely popular, but he still has his fans. And believe it or not, there'll be a lot of fans of Ness out there who've never even heard of Mother, and will just be frustrated by the fact that their favourite character has been removed and replaced by a character that Nintendo refuses to let them find out about.

[Fryguy64]

Is THAT what this whole argument is about? It's not about how many obscure/Japan-only characters are in at all, but about whether Lucas will replace Ness?

I will be brutally honest... I would be very surprised if Lucas replaced Ness. Reading through some of the posts on Japanese messageboards and the like, you see a lot more Ness fans as well. And they also seem very sensitive to "overseas" requirements. They know Mother and Mother 3 never came out here, and for those who are big Ness fans, that's a good reason to keep Ness in the game.

But I have a new idea. Screw it. I'll start a new thread.

[GenG]

If they've never heard of MOTHER (and they don't care about this franchise), and a new MOTHER character appears inheriting all his moves, playing exactly, and with similar aesthetics... what's the problem then?

The unfair thing here is to rewrite the history of a franchise ignoring the long awaited sequel to appeal a number of fans below the ones that will appreciate and WANT the new character. But as I said before, they can put both characters. However Lucas should have priority over Ness.

[kirbychu]

It's not really fair to assume that people who don't go online and research the history of a franchise don't care about it. Don't forget that a lot of Nintendo fans are kids, too.

I'm not saying Mother 3 should be completely ignored, but I do think a focus on multi-regional games would be more fair on the world in general. They're doing it with Fire Emblem, after all.

[GenG]

What they are doing with Fire Emblem is sticking with the most recent games, something that should be applied to all franchises, including MOTHER.

MOTHER-JP, possibly the most important MOTHER source in Japan, has started one of those "MOTHER 3 FOR BRAWL" webring of sorts, so the idea of leaving MOTHER 3 unexplored isn't too appealing for them. Smash was always open to MOTHER 3 anyway as Sakurai said in the old DOJO, and now it's the time for this amazing game to have the recognition it deserves.

[kirbychu]

Well, so far the oldest Fire Emblem thing we have is from the first game released worldwide. And I'm not really expecting much from the earlier games, either.

[Leon]

kirbychu said:

Well, so far the oldest Fire Emblem thing we have is from the first game released worldwide. And I'm not really expecting much from the earlier games, either.

No, the oldest thing is the Falchion emblem from the first game. Marth is coming, he is the most requested FE character above all others, he is popular character from Melee. Ike has a different move set from Marth, Castle Siege represents all FE games and has many designs from the early titles. Plus, Oguma is the second most requested FE character, and is more popular than Hector, Eliwood, and Ephraim.

Don't count out early FE.

[Flint]

Look at what I have unleased in this topic, and I just wanted to say that in “some cases“ (Lyn in particular) Popular are better than obscure.

I got nothing against obscure franchises (bring all of them to brawl) but when you are talking about using obscure characters from well known franchises (Like Parrothead was sugesting with that Fire emblem II lord), its when things arent always the same.

Would you have prefered thatn they chosed Foreman Spike instead of Luigi? Onox instead of Ganondorf? or DK jr instead of Diddy? those where some popular characters that actually deserved to apear in brawl, and those are some obscure characters from popular franchises and Nintendo wouldnt have won anything including those charcters (with obscure/japan only francises they give that series recognition).

Now I am always surprised when people mention that they didn´t know who Pit was. back when Smash 64 was going out, every one was expecting Pit and CP. falcon to be secret characters, and when Melee was going to be released Pit along with Wario was the most requested character.

Now Mother its a special case, Ness is the popular character, but since Ness is not the poster boy from Mother Series (yet, but if he is included in Brawl, he will) I feel that Brawl will probably be my only chance to play with Mother 3 characters. Thats why I want Lucas in brawl (or better Flint, but I know his chances are slim) even if that cost me Ness.

This far Lyn is the closest we have got to having a character that its fanservice for the West more that the East, as everyone else are well known around the world (and I bet that everyone that played the FIRE EMBLEM for GBA has a special atachment for Lyn).

[kirbychu]

cogrit said:

Marth is coming, he is the most requested FE character above all others, he is popular character from Melee.

I would like to see your proof, please. And the series icon doesn't mean anything, really. It's just been copy-pasted from Melee, to make it clear it's the same series.

[Game Guru]

Comparing Ike to Lucas is not the same thing...

Ike's Fire Emblem game actually came out in all territories and he's popular in both Japan AND the West. The three GBA Fire Emblems were never popular in Japan, but Path of Radience IS. Also, Ike's the most recent Fire Emblem hero, so he likely replaces the most recent Fire Emblem hero in Melee, which was the clonish Roy, and NOT the magnificent Marth. Marth was the FIRST Fire Emblem hero and only appears in the first game and the third. (The third game actually having a chance to appear on OUR VC if Nintendo doesn't want to be lazy and translate it.)

While I have said that Paula, Jeff, and Poo's chances of being playable in Brawl is slim-to-nil due to Mother 3's mere existence, it still doesn't change the fact that Ness is the only Mother hero to get his game released outside Japan. From the look of the Assist Trophies, many look to be characters popular in only one region... Devil obviously never had a US appearence until now, and Lyn is only popular with Western Audiences. It is extremely likely we will get Ness as a playable, but Assist Trophies that range through ALL three Mother games. (Though mainly from Earthbound & Mother 3, as only Mother 1's Teddy looks different from his counterpart in Earthbound, Poo)

In fact, I would perfer Lucas only to appear as an assist... I don't want to play as a blond-haired, no hat version of Ness when there are other characters like Claus, Flint, Kumatora, and Duster who would have a more original look and moves.

[Arcadenik]

You should have seen the Smash forum at Nsider. Fanboys and fangirls were going crazy over her. Some got peeved and said they were going to kill themselves over Lyn being unplayable. Some threw hissy fits and said they weren't buying Brawl, let alone Wii, because Lyn is unplayable. It was pathetically hilarious if you ask me.

[GenG]

samaine said:

I don't want to play as a blond-haired, no hat version of Ness

But I think a lot of people would do like play like him, myself included. Lucas is a better character like Ness, with actual in-game development, one very easy to get attached to. So what we do? He is the main character of one game, just like Ness, the most anticipated one and heavily acclaimed.

But, I think they should cut Ness, since Earthbound wasn't never released in Europe. Then everybody will be happy!

[kirbychu]

I live in Europe, and I've played Earthbound from start to finish. On the other hand, I can't play Mother 3. At all. Even if I did import it, I couldn't understand a thing.