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Post by Smashchu on Apr 9, 2005 0:50:53 GMT -5
Now... Smashchu. The costume thing is not just my idea. In fact, I'll think you'll find Fryguy to have brought it up also. HAL may very well stick to tried and true formulas, but if they want to give us something new, then they should give thought to ideas that look laterally. If the next SSB game is a clone of SSBM, with simply more clone characters, I will be sadly dissapointed. |
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Post by Andronicus on Apr 9, 2005 1:29:21 GMT -5
I think I did bring it up, but Fryguy is still a strong advocate of this idea, from what I can fathom.
Regardless, it's something to think about. ;D
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 9, 2005 4:50:27 GMT -5
Although it obviously depends on how many characters are in the game in total, I think 4 characters from Nintendo's main series (Mario, Zelda and Pokemon) is a perfect number. So Mario would have Mario, Peach, Bowser and Luigi (give him a vacuum based move to change him from Mario a bit more) (Yoshi, DK and Wario (hopefully hes in there) don't count because they have branched off into there own series of games). Zelda would have Link, Young Link (Cel-shaded and not a clone), Zelda/Sheik and Gannondorf and Pokemon would have Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo and another strong looking pokemon (not a "cute" one). Like I said (or, if I didn't say it, I meant to say it  ), I would like that spot to be filled with Blastoise. Blaziken would be OK, too, as would quite a few others. As for having a "large handful of obscure characters"... I don't really like the idea. But give me a list of who you are talking about, and try to change my mind. It probably wont be hard to do. |
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Post by Andronicus on Apr 9, 2005 5:09:32 GMT -5
No Yoshi? But he makes and throws eggs! Makes and throws eggs!
Seriously though, Pokemon to a controllable amount... the Pokeballs are alright, but tend to add to the overwhelming Pokemon feel at times.
And Wario - I fully get where you're coming from DIU, he is a spin-off character, but you have to admit... he'd be cool. He has wrestling moves.
End.
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Post by Fryguy64 on Apr 9, 2005 5:52:36 GMT -5
I hate to say it, Smashchu, but any game developer making a sequel who says "well it's in there, they'll just have to live with it, no matter how much they don't like it" deserves to fall flat on its arse.
Fact is, a game developer not only has to add more of what the fans liked, they have to cut things the fans didn't like. The thing most people complained about was the clone characters. Why not lose them altogether and give the fans more actual characters instead?
Also, Fran, saying there were 'only 4 Pokemon' is a bit daft considering only Mario had more characters. When one of those characters is Pichu, and another is Jigglypuff, you have to wonder if the developers really considered all the options. Maybe four would be a good thing, but only if they were all different enough to warrant it. I think in SSBM it was a case of "why do we need all these Pokemon when there are so many other characters not being used?"
DIU, I disagree on one point... I don't think Yoshi will ever count as anything other than a Mario character. DK has become his own thing, Wario has very much built a career for himself elsewhere, but Yoshi is still far too grounded in the Mario series (his adventures regularly feature Mario or Bowser, for instance). I would say lose Peach or Bowser... but it's a tough one to call.
As for my large handful of obscure characters here's some ideas I think would be good for a fighting game.
Takamaru: Hero of Nazo no Murasamejou, and a trainee samurai on a mission to infiltrate the castle of the demonic head Murasame. He fights with a number of different weapons, including a samurai sword, nunchuks, bolas, and more.
Bubbles: Clu Clu Land has long been a NinDB favourite, and while Bubbles' moveset is rather limited to swinging on turning posts and supersonic voice, these can be adapted to become weapons - spin attacks, a range of screeches, and why not lash out with some detached turning posts once in a while?
Sheriff: Would Nintendo put a classic style gunman in a game these days? One way to find out!
Goku: Hero of Yuu Yuu Ki, and the king of the monkeys. A skilled martial artist, and armed with a magical staff, a flying cloud, and a range of magical powers it would be great to see him lash out (similar characters based on the same folk tale have also been included in games such as Marvel vs. Capcom - SonSon... and the Dragonball games).
These will of course be fully modelled after their original artwork (I'm trying to get a med/hi-res version of Sheriff's full body from the arcade game's screen-border art, to no avail)... I would like to include them, not just for nostalgia value, but to expand the range of character types available. I've already mentioned ROB and Professor Hector teaming up, as there is no robot character! Barmy! But with a samurai, a bubble fish(?), a sheriff and a Japanese folktale hero Nintendo won't simply be giving us more plumbers and more pocket monsters.
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Lee
Pikpik Carrot
Posts: 37
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Post by Lee on Apr 9, 2005 6:31:57 GMT -5
I don't mind the clones that much or the secondary characters, but there should not be anymore pokemon four is plenty (and two of them are pretty much worthless), and there should be more obscure characters like Little Mac, Pit, Mike Jones, Tin-Star (like that will happen).
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 9, 2005 6:47:41 GMT -5
No Yoshi? But he makes and throws eggs! Makes and throws eggs! Seriously though, Pokemon to a controllable amount... the Pokeballs are alright, but tend to add to the overwhelming Pokemon feel at times. And Wario - I fully get where you're coming from DIU, he is a spin-off character, but you have to admit... he'd be cool. He has wrestling moves. End. No, no, no. You misunderstood. I meant the count of 4 Mario characters does not include Yoshi, DK, or Wario, hence the count for Mario is 4 and not 7. I want them all in. They better all be in. DIU, I disagree on one point... I don't think Yoshi will ever count as anything other than a Mario character. DK has become his own thing, Wario has very much built a career for himself elsewhere, but Yoshi is still far too grounded in the Mario series (his adventures regularly feature Mario or Bowser, for instance). I would say lose Peach or Bowser... but it's a tough one to call. I'd also consider Yoshi (even games like Yoshi's Story, Touch and Go, etc) a part of the Mario universe, but in SSBM he had a different logo, so obviously HAL considers him to be in a different series. And I wouldn't cut Peach or Bowser - Peach is part of the minority of female characters, Bowser is part of the minority of evil characters. If you took anyone from the Mario representatives, it would have to be Luigi. I know Andronicus loves him, but he really does suck. If everybody complains about clones, then surely Luigi should be kicked out or changed. Though he does have the flailing punch run which is awesome when you want to beat opponents with ridiculous looking enemies. Jigglypuff acheives that, too. As for the obscure list, they all sound good, and they would all make great additions. But so, IMO, would some of the secondary and evil characters. |
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Post by nocturnal YL on Apr 9, 2005 8:08:24 GMT -5
Despite their logos are different, SSB gaames consider Yoshi as a Mario character, I mean, a PURE Mario character.
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Post by Andronicus on Apr 9, 2005 19:55:48 GMT -5
Hahaha! ;D
Yeah, I am a fan of Luigi DIU... but he has his merits as a character. Like somebody said (can't remember who), give him a vacuum cleaner, and he starts to differentiate himself from Mario a bit more - and yeah, that flailing punch is hilarious (as is his self propulsion throught the air).
I'd disagree with Fryguy on Peach and take DIU's side - while she's pointless, she is the token female from the mascot series... can't really get rid of her... And Bowser is a villain - villain's are cool to play as, because you finally get to beat the living crap out of the heroes for a change... ;D
As far as changing colours goes, Yoshi is the only one who should have different colours, because there are different coloured Yoshi's - methinks.
Fin.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 10, 2005 4:24:18 GMT -5
I still think they need to have different colours, though certain characters could have alternate "forms" (Mario could have Dr. Mario, Tanooki, Paper Mario, etc). The problem with having only the different forms would be not every character has 4 (or however many are needed) different forms and that they would be hard to group into teams. If they did both, it would make everyone happy, but there is the extra programming involved.
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Post by Andronicus on Apr 10, 2005 19:10:50 GMT -5
I was thinking about that too - not enough forms for different characters...
I was also thinking making the different forms slightly different in ability, but that might get a bit too complicated - say Mario has traditional moves, Fire Mario replaces one move with a fire blast, Tanooki Mario's shield turns him to stone, Paper Mario doesn't punch, he has a hammer, etc.
Complicated, yes, but imagine the possibilities!
As for different forms:
- Mario - Mario, Fire Mario, Paper Mario, Tannoki Mario, Racoon Mario, etc.
- DK - DK, classic DK (then I run out of ideas...)
- Wario - Wario, WarioWare Wario (I guess...), SML2 Wario (he was larger, fatter and had uneven eyes - I'm trying here... OK?)
- Link - cel-shaded, Zelda '05, etc.
- Samus - regular Samus, Fusion Samus, Dark Samus (?), or what about Samus' different suits? (Varia, Light, Dark, birthday... joke... not very funny... ;D)
It would be hard I suppose...
A la fin.
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Post by Dances in Undergarments on Apr 11, 2005 5:27:34 GMT -5
I was thinking about that too - not enough forms for different characters... I was also thinking making the different forms slightly different in ability, but that might get a bit too complicated - say Mario has traditional moves, Fire Mario replaces one move with a fire blast, Tanooki Mario's shield turns him to stone, Paper Mario doesn't punch, he has a hammer, etc. That would be awesome, it really would. But are they going to do that for every form of every character? Maybe they could just have one different form of each character, with the slightly different moves and stats for each. This would allow HAL to double the amount of characters, but would stop people complaining about clones, as they wouldn't count onto the character tally (so if there were say, 40 characters, those 40 would be completely original ones). That would work really well, IMO, as it would also be fairly easy to come up with one secondary from for everyone. You could also get some really cool characters like this, eg. Wario's alternate form could be Waluigi. If Waluigi was put in there as a seperate character, it would be ridiculous - but stick him in like this, and suddenly its "hey, look - Waluigi!". At least it would be for me. |
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Post by Fryguy64 on Apr 11, 2005 9:06:18 GMT -5
That's like cloning to the extreme! Kinda reminds me of Marvel vs. Capcom 2's character lineup... a lot of original characters and a lot of slightly altered ones. It could work, I guess.
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Post by Smashchu on Apr 11, 2005 19:12:54 GMT -5
Its only now that I relize my last post Didn't quote right.
Anyway you right no one relly liked the clones but, poeple use them so changing or taking them out would ubset the ppl that use them. They should just not add anymore. Also they put Jiggleypuff in because it (next to Piklachu) is the most popular japaness character(in pokemon).
The coustom idea is just making it turn into a traditional Button-mashing fighting game which SSB isn't. As I said before use the alternate color thing. If a character look like another one change the color.
As far as clones go, if theres a good one put it in. Don't worry there aren't many(if any good clone charactres left.
One thing fryguy NO GOKU. I hope there some other Nintendo goku your talking about. Go to most SSB forums and when ever some Enstine makes a list and trys to make a Marvle v Capcom they get riped by a Pack of Ravinous Fanboys. Trust me more people want Skull-kid them Goku(BY FAR)
Since there will be more Characters in the next one, Newe pokemon will not hinder it. Blazeken is a good character but I just seem to see the 3 starters insted. Thats just me. Same gose to Swordsman and Mario characters. Now a list that more ppl will like.
Definate characters.-Wario,Diddy,Pit,Olimar,Ridley,Meta-Kight,Samurai Gohor.
Generals but also good
Another StarFox character(Slippy,Krystal,or Wolf)
Another Fire Emblem(on from 4 since it was the best Fire Emblem according to most ppl)
Another Pokemon(One from R/S I would like to see Kyrogor( hope i spelled it right)but he might be to big)
Another Zelda if you can think of a good one(the best ones I've though up so far are Malon[next most seen zelda character and could have some odd but original moves]and Tingel[not by popular demand])
Another franchise(Clu clu land and Golden Sun[if its nintendo]are good but maybe Advance Wars[a classic
franchise in Japan]oh and Ballon Fighter)
Maybe another GOOD mario character(Toad, also since poeple want to make the Racoon costom just make it its own character as Racoon Mario[just a tought])
Maybe Wario Ware(as I said befor popular fan base I would put Jimmy put people have said Kat&Ana are good)
These arwe kind of guide lines, try to think up more good characters.
One of my friends segested Ditto as a character. Its crazy but here me out. If you have played Soul Caulaber 2 then you may know of a character Churade. He is a character that copys a character for 1 round. For ditto he would change into a Random chatracter when he first hit the gound until he is K.O.ed. When he comes back hes Ditto until he hit the ground aging and becomes someone else. He would be a Blank out line to make him different from the other characters. If not him Hal could make up a new character to use for that. Kinda cool huh
Remember SSB is complete fantasy. The hidden story is that its a little boys Imagination(its impied)so dont let any limitation stop you. Also I would not like them to change or alter the clones, people acually use them.
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Post by TrustTheFungus on Apr 11, 2005 19:55:21 GMT -5
Fryguy is talking about the Goku from the Mukashi Banashi series. Like Donbe and Hikari.
Anyway, I've already posted my list of characters I want in SSB. I don't mind side-kicks and villians, but I want more heroes then the others. If you look at my list it is over %50 heroes. The side characters are from Nintendo's main games.(Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, Metroid, DK, Star Fox, F-Zero, and Fire Emblem)
What really bothers me is having two Mario's, two Link's, and two Pika's.
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), I would like that spot to be filled with Blastoise. Blaziken would be OK, too, as would quite a few others.
